Former Castlevania Producer Announces Bloodstained Explains Why It Isn’t Coming to Nintendo Platforms

“My support did not mean jack”

And that is exactly it. Just because you or I support them doesn’t mean other people will. Is it useless to support them? No, as there are still a decent number of worthwhile third party titles to pick up on the Wii U, but when people do not care to support the developers you get the end result: Less resources and time allocated towards development on said platform, until it becomes a deficit on your profits. Then you cut support from that platform, which is essentially what happened to the Wii U.

It is true that many third party games on Wii U were sub par, or were just flat out bad, but that doesn’t stand for ALL of them. There were a good number of titles that weren’t bad that STILL received the exact same treatment that the bad games got from Nintendo fans. Isn’t that contradictory to the idea of buying a good product?

Many first party titles on Wii U were sub par too. Both on the tech side and/or the applications of gameplay. They have definitely improved this past year, but for just as long as the Wii U was being actively supported by third parties, Nintendo was just as inconsistent. Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze had a game breaking glitch that stopped players from progressing in-game, and it took several months before a patch was released to fix it; Pikmin had frame rate drops with random gameplay glitches and was 30fps… And then there’s New Super Mario Bros. U (again) with reusing assets, music and some level similarity between it and New Super Mario Bros. Wii…. There are more examples of their hiccups, but I think you get the point I’m trying to drive home.

Nintendo is improving on some of these things, and the above doesn’t stand for all of their first party games but it’s unfair to blame just the third parties. That very same thing applies to third party games. Besides, by your account, you are showing that you held a bias against third parties and subjected it onto Igarashi not bringing this game to the Wii U.

That year head start was not a head start at all. The games that third parties put out on the system and Nintendo’s negligence in releasing more first party that ensured that, so your excuse falls flat.
Sorry.
And gear box is a horrible example to fall back on when they never even TRIED to work with the system.
And finally, as for Bayonetta, the comparison is perfectly valid.
It has sold nearly 3/4ths what the first game sold, on an install base that isn’t even half the size.
Wii U owners did that.
Not third party fans.

“Because I GUARANTEE that if a huge AAA game like CoD came to Wii U day one with all of the support as the other versions, (DLC, patches and all) it would still fail hard. Nintendo gamers…obviously have no interest in these types of games.”

& that’s the crux of this thread & why IGA’s decision is so frustrating & confusing: Nintendo gamers obviously have more interest in Platformers, 2D or 3D; games w/ puzzles, focused gameplay, formulaic approaches, & abstract aesthetics rather than photorealism, unfocused gameplay, & FPSes & Open Worlds. Games from the pre-AAA paradigm & pre-Western takeover fit so much better on a Nintendo platform.

A generalization, perhaps, but most 3rd parties have certainly alienated me. I’m not exactly into FPSes (which are all the rage now), never did care for the GoldenEye game (loved the movie), nor did I care for Turok or Perfect Dark. But both Red Steel & RS 2 had my attention, & my money. I even enjoyed The Conduit (except for its difficulty spikes), & Destiny (except for the length & glut of cutscenes). I know the following are 3rd Person Shooters or hybrids, but Buck Bumble, Dead to Rights, Killer7, Resident Evil 4, RE: Revelaitons [sic] (3DS), & Metroid Prime got my money, & Devil’s 3rd has my attention, & will likely get my money, too. But you’re right: FPSes like CoD &, for that matter, Open Worlds like Assassin’s Creed are unappealing to me. 3rd parties’ recent efforts just seem to lack that…I dunno right now, je ne sais quoi? that I look for on ANY platform. 3rd parties dropped gaming fundamentals, largely stopped catering to the gaming paradigm that was so prevelant in 6th gen, but was subsequently upheld mostly by Wii (& 3rd parties), & is upheld on Wii U (but from 1st/2nd parties & indies).

Was the industry not profitable during 6th gen? GCN was 3rd place, yet Nintendo managed to profit on hardware much sooner than the sales leader. & 3rd parties seemed more than capable of filling PS2’s library w/ multiple franchises & genres, sometimes from a single publisher. & not every game needs to reach such high sales if done conservatively. 6th gen seemed diverse enough, & each console, even GCN, received support. Even N64 in 5th gen seemed to have better support than Wii U, & it was far behind the original PlayStation’s sales; GCN was tailing Xbox sales but both received more support than Wii U. Regardless, AAAs are even riskier. Hard to believe that w/ all the technology we have now, publishers are struggling & it’s become mandatory to multiplat, work almost exclusively w/ x86, rush their games to market, use photorealism, DLC, microtransactions, cutscene fillers, etc just to profit. Games were always products, of course, but now that’s pretty much all the publishers & shareholders see them as. Yet, before all the middleware, pre-built engines, & use of x86, 3rd parties were able to profit & cater to upwards of 4 different & major platforms (Nintendo [home-consoles & handhelds], SEGA, & Sony), & 3rd parties’ catalogs & aesthetics were far more diverse & active than they are now. Games were actually seen as unique & something to be proud of. & greed is more & more condoned by the masses in the name of ‘business’; there seems no sacred ground anymore as time moves forward, while industries move backwards. “Exploit the consumer & rape the land, as long as it makes us profit, that’s just good business.” An exaggeration, but closer to reality.

@ least Ubisoft released Rayman Legends, but they fell into the AAA trappings of having to multiplat & generate huge profits instead of simply healthy profits. So, they made a game that fits well w/ the Nintendo subculture, something to appease to the 2D Mario & 2D Donkey Kong crowds, plus its abstract aesthetics, history w/ Nintendo platforms, & use of the Gamepad. Yet Ubisoft yanks its exclusivity before release, & puts the completed game on hold during a Wii U game drought w/ in its launch window. Thus, Ubisoft somehow deserves support in the name of business. Because they can tell the future & shareholders know best.

Where’s the next 3D Rayman, or Prince of Persia (3D &/or 2D)? Mario 3D World was a success on Wii U, right? In the past, 3rd parties would usually capitalize on that. How much would it cost to make another 3D Rayman, especially w/ all the remakes & copy-&-paste sequels generating quick profits for Ubisoft? Cash-ins like that usually helped fund cult games & exclusives. Or are AAAs inhaling the lion’s share of profits & employees? The FPSes & Open Worlds their main focus (blinding them to other markets that, while smaller, can still be lucrative if they’d stop biting off more than they can chew? & the multiplats (most of which clearly favor the PC/Sony/MS crowds) are now the only way to sustain their business? Sounds rotten to me, & that rot has spread to console-gaming.

& then there are indies, & more conservative budgets & strategies. Genres they seem keen on upholding (2D Platformers, & 3D Plaformers reminicient of the N64 era), which typically suit any console that still adheres to the previous path, the fundamentals that were so prevalent in 6th gen. Indies, who would likely not be so power-hungry (which bloats budgets), although Shi’nen is hellbent on pushing Wii U to its limits (but has any game yet used all of Wii U’s cores?) A game like Bloodstained & a small team led by IGA, for example, would be right @ home on Wii U, & a rational, modest approach could easily produce a healthy profit. But hey, I thought Kickstarter would’ve made things even easier if the goal was healthy profit. Focus on the core audience, generate a profit, then work to include more platforms, maybe use the power of Kickstarter again. I know if Wii U was blatantly put forward, I’d contribute to that cause.

But I guess not every indy can escape the allure of multiplatting from the get-go, to rake in hige profits. Nor can they escape the prevalence of x86, noatter how cheap, old, & ill-suited it is for gaming. Not everyone is immune to getting their hands stained w/ blood.

“Now if I’m a developer, why should I release my game on the Wii U? So you can pass it in favor of Splatoon instead?”

Depends upon your genre & how you present your game to me. Also, how quickly & large do you want your payoff? What do your shareholders say?

If you want my business, then wow me, or @ least make a quality “rehash”. & as someone who started gaming before 7th gen, & who happens to dislike their what AAA games represent, you could start by looking @ what works on my preferred console, which includes genres, aesthetics, & some level of innovation or a certain hook not found in Western reality or the cirrent climate except on Wii U, 3DS, in some cases Vita, in what indies create. Look to the East & the 6th gen for inspiration; you might find what I’m looking for, & possibly what many Nintendo, SEGA, & pre-7th gen Sony fans seek. Look to PS2 & Dreamcast.

But Splatoon is different, & not just as a shooter or a Nintendo product. Splatoon is also different than what’s out on PS4 & X1 because they current industry has largely abandoned its past. In that way, Splatoon is different because it’s the same…as games used to be made, particularly from Nintendo, SEGA, & 3rd party games catering to their respective strengths.

But, since devs no longer want to support Nintendo’s style (& SEGA’s for that matter), or the fundamentals of gaming altogether, then maybe 3rd parties no longer or’ve never had any business providing those subcultures games. Trying to have an all-in-1 platform clearly fails as it kills diversity, as do the budgets of AAAs. 3 platforms share a vast amount of multiplats, yet they’re mostly photorealistic & are either FPS & Open World, w/ the occasional Sports SIMs & real-time RPGs. I’m not saying those games should never come to a Nintendo platform, but I don’t see how those types of games would all fit there. Now, multiplats of the past had a place on Nintendo platforms, but they generally followed several conventions particular of the entire eras before 7th gen.

W/ Wii, 3rd parties found a way to keep in line w/ what 6th gen laid before. W/ Wii U, however, most 3rd parties tried forcing Nintendo into following what has largely become in a homoganized landscape (PS360/PS4/X1/PC). 3rd parties are also afraid of evolutionary changes in controllers, @ least compared to the boon seen in DS. Or 3rd parries feel they cannot escape the AAA quagmire they themselves helped create. Granted, Nintendo hurt Wii U, too; partly because they greatly overestimated 3rd parties, as well as the Wii brand & DS’ boon. Nintendo also apparently committed the crime of putting games & a console 1st: PowerPC for optimized software, a modest leap to lessen dev costs, etc. But Nintendo largely abandoned Wii in its later years, & apparently 3rd parties no longer felt the need to make a lot of genres, instead going all in w/ AAA & a few genres. It is noce to see Ubisoft is @ least trying to put some of their profits into new IP, but I dunno if they’ll be enough or even return to the rails.

& Sony’s deviation? They had financial troubles in their other business sectors, & PS3’s launch was nightmarish. So, Sony finally took a huge hit by dropping PS3’s absurd price, & fell in line w/ 360’s approach. Of course, Sony still tried to capitalize on Nintendo’s Wiimote, but they hindered that evolution by relying on PS2’s EyeToy. Bit Sony AND MS always heavily relied on 3rd parties, especially Western 3rd parties. So, Sony further bowed to their whims & cut corners on PS4 by using x86 & off-the-shelf parts. But careful what you wish for: Sony implemented a huge increase in power, but w/ little return in output & 3rd parties now have to spend more money catering to that power, which makes profitting harder & devving more demanding. Either way, Sony lost its brand relevance by aligning their identity w/ the Xbox brand. & since 3rd parties no longer want to deal w/ so many systems & subcultures, & have recently started devving on PC 1st, they’ve looked to similar architecture, @ the expense of optimized, dedicated experiences. & 3rd parties no longer want so many genres & aesthetics, so their games, or rather products, are streamlined & copy Hollywood conventions rather than gaming conventions. & screw evolving the controller, which would further disrupt their new assembly line.

But hey, profits are all that matter; just look @ how successful the Irish potato farmers were for sticking to 1 kind of potato. That’s why diversity is so unhealthy, & any market who craves it should either change or die (Ah, Robotech…on *gasp* GameCube!).

“No thanks.” But did you even try? Have you strayed so far from the past, you forgot how to make a fun-but-conservative game? Even though the tech makes it easier, & indies can do it, & somehow better w/ even less resources? Again, if you look @ what works for a particular platform, & invest what you can afford to lose (after all, risk is part of any healthy business), then you might actually be successful on Wii U, or @ least plant the seeds of success, if your business is strong enough for the future.

However, if you base a decision on the success of, say, ZombiU, an M-rated Wii U launch game, loosely based on a game from 1986, 1 that needed a bit more polish, & was released on a console known for quality? But because that particulat experiment struggled & merely profitted, you then decide to yank exclusivity on an upcoming, promised exclusive that better fits the Wii U userbase & delay it during a drought? Well, it’s hard to tell what would’ve happened, especially since Wii U was so young @ the time, & both ZombiU & Rayman Legends had they’re own situations (another element 3rd parties want to eliminate, IF they even acknowledge that distinction). But, you prolly doomed yourself, AND helped sew the seeds of failure for the console. & you’re likely going overbudget if you have to constantly pester platform-manufacturers for money. Again, look to the past, bit this time to see how to make a game @ or under budget. Maybe invest in middleware &/or a pre-built engine that works on every platform (for future porting).

I wonder, though, if profits are so important, why not leave the gaming industry for something w/ a better profits to work ratio? Say, gambling or health spas? Or stay in the gaming industry, but invest in the biggest platform of them all: mobile. All that time, effort, money, & people spent on AAA to make products on PC, PS4, & X, & such an endeavor to not only place on the charts, but see a return in your investments (reaching the charts isn’t enough anymore). If leaving consoles behind was as easy as dropping Wii U (& likely never touching 3DS), maybe leaving PCs behind would be easy, too. Phones & tablets, Apple & Android, or Hel, just pick 1 & watch the profits roll in. Everyone’s got 1, the majority of budget-PC owners are young, they don’t care about quality hardware or software… Graphics? Phones are catching up. Dedicated devices are no longer necessary, & dedication to most platforms is uneccesary since they’re largely the same. I’m sure going full-touchscreen is doable; or there are controllers compatible w/ phones now.

Or, make a game like Monster Hunter & release it on platforms w/ userbases that not only appreciate it, but a platform where resources aren’t so demanding.

Or whatever.

Yeah, sometimes I’ve had to go the email route to reply, too. It is weird.

Thanks for the kudos! It really does mean a lot.

I guess if we wanna play ‘metroidvania’ now, all we can do is look to the past. Wouldn’t it be interesting, though, if those eShop titles saw a big enough sales spike that IGA noticed? I wonder what he’d do then. But, for me, I still have all my original copies & the platforms to play them on.

Edit: same goes for Bethesda.
Neither have ever really tried making a name for themselves with Nintendo, and while they were writing the system off, other devs were making games of a quality they were basically claiming could not be done.