Nintendo has responded to a recent inquiry about the changes made for the Western release of Fire Emblem Fates, clarifying the details of the changes and why these decisions were made.
One particular controversial scene, that saw Soleil struggling with her attraction to women, and was then given magic powder to see men as women and vice versa in turn allowing the protagonist to marry her, won’t appear in the game when it releases in the West. When Silconera asked about this change, Nintendo responded with:
“Making changes is not unusual when we localize games, and we have indeed made changes in these games. When we localize a game we do so in order to make it appropriate for that particular territory. All our choices were made from that point of view.”
“In the Conquest edition a male main character created by the gamer can pair up with another male character (Niles) which ultimately leads to marriage. Similarly, in the Birthright edition, a female main character created by the gamer can pair up with and eventually marry another female character (Rhajat). Like married couples of the opposite gender, these same-sex couples enjoy the stat boosts that come with marriage, which means when they are paired up in battle they are stronger than when they are apart or paired up with another character.”
“In the third edition, Revelation, that will be released as DLC in the eShop on March 10, a same-sex marriage is possible regardless of the sex of your main character, as both Niles and Rhajat can be encountered in this edition.”
Fire Emblem Fates will be available in North America on February 19th, and a release date is yet to be confirmed for Europe.
In other words, they clarified by not saying anything, as usual.
The censorship i don’t care about i just want the damn game! release it the same as the usa
Nintendo shitting on the babies who keep crying over censorship ha lol
>>>Just don’t lower the difficulty as that is my main concern with all games>>>
Or at least make easier difficulty options Optional. I want Full-on difficulty, you die, you’re dead mode. And I can’t seem to find the trifecta game pre-order anywhere! D;
When I gsme with people, they slways want to play on easy or normal so they can feel like they are doing well or whatever… They know If we’re not playing on the hardest setting (or just below) It just isn’t fun for me.
FRNeo is great, even on it’s first difficulty setting, It’s a solid challenge.
>>>Indeed, whenever I recruit someone and they play their best only to be at the same level as my barely mediocre gameplay, I send them away forever, they are not worthy of my time nor presence>>>
This may be a new statement from Nintendo, but it isn’t new information. The issue is with Soleil. It has nothing to do with the other non-straight characters. I’m all for modifying the whole drugging thing, but it’s not okay to neuter a character’s sexuality just because some some other characters aren’t straight either. I guess we’ll just have to wait ’til the game comes out in English to see how they handle this mess. :(
Why are you okay with them changing the “drugging” thing? It happens in real life too all the time. If you are against that, why aren’t you against murder in games? Isn’t that worse? Murder of the innocent, traumatic experiences caused by murder, people doing morally incorrect things in pursuit of their goal of murdering someone – all things that happen in video games rather regularly and nobody has an issue with. So why is drugging such a big deal? It’s just a game.
Things like drugging people happen in movies too, acted out by real people, but everyone seems alright with that. I don’t get it.
This is no big deal because Nintendo decided to change their software. They used their freedom of ownership to change their software. It is up to consumer to use their freedom to buy it or not. This is the case whenever this happens for any company that owns the software.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to make a point about the censorship itself. It was more about me not understanding why people are so bothered by the Japanese version’s “drugging” scene in particular, because this isn’t the first time I’ve seen people support the change because they think drugging is not ok in video games.
It could have been the other way around, as in, Nintendo deciding to add the drugging scene into the Western version while it wasn’t in the Japanese version, and I’d still be wondering why people are so sensitive about it if people happened to complain about drugging being unacceptable in games and that it shouldn’t be added.
I hope that was a bit more clear. :)
Thanks for clarifying. For me, the drugging doesn’t bother me. Would it be weird or cause moral judgement in my mind but it is a video game so nothing that would really cause me to have concern. It comes down to people’s moral judgement, how they was raise, or who they have become now. People as a whole can never agree and any topic so these controversial will keep happening.
Haha, that last line certainly is true.
And I think the same way as you, it doesn’t bother me because it’s just a game. They’re not actually hurting anyone in reality, so I don’t see an issue with it. I don’t mind it in movies or other fictional media either. But I don’t understand people getting worked up over something like this in a video game, but being fine with seeing it regularly in movies or TV shows and all; it’s hypocritical.
But personally, I don’t think it has much to do with one’s morals, because what you evaluate as acceptable in fictional media, you won’t necessarily be alright with in reality too. There is a clear difference between fiction and reality, after all. Me thinking the drugging scene is alright in FE doesn’t mean I think drugging is alright in real life as well.
In all honesty, I think people who get offended by these things happening in video games are sometimes being a bit overly sensitive, and in some situations I can’t help being left with doubts about their actual motives behind complaining about cases like these.
That’s true. In GTA it is acceptable to me to beat up a hooker but in real life I would defend that hooker
That actually makes a lot of sense, except for a small little issue. Boycotting a game does prove a point, but it also doesn’t send a clear message. If I so happen to boycott a game because of my stand over censorship, whose to tell that they won’t take those sales and and think that the game just doesn’t have a strong enough demand. Not supporting a game over censorship might lead to them dumping the IP.
In some ways it’s a no win situation for both.
I may need to include a second portion. Consumers may also use their freedom to send letters, emails, and other type of correspondence to express their displeasure over the software owner’s software. Thank you. I like people knowing all their optiins.
*options
I also don’t know if letters work in some way but it is important to note that you compliment the software but then speak on why you did not purchase it. Hopefully this will let them know there is interest in the series but not that game based on the reason.
This is exactly what I fear with Federation Farce. No true Metroid fan wants it because of what they’re doing with it, but I’m afraid if no one buys it, Nintendo would just think “oh, Metroid isn’t what people want anymore, time to make it the next Kid Icarus” instead of fixing the reasons WHY no one wants it… which is almost everything.
I think Nintendo has heard the fans’ complaints and knows that the fans want a true Metroid game. They’ve proved recently that they’re willing to listen to fans. (Delaying Star Fox to improve it; ‘attempting to’ explain their point of view on the Fire Emblem controversey; etc.) I don’t think they’ll put Metroid on hold after Force.
I don’t think Federation Force will be a bad game, but it’s the kind of game that should be released alongside a main title, not on its own; especially since we’re in the middle of a Metroid drought. It’s like Triforce Heroes; it’s not the Zelda game we really want, but we know Zelda U is coming and Triforce Heroes is fun enough to hold us over until then.
It would be awesome if Nintendo announced a main Metroid title this year. People’s oppinion of Federation Force would probably change if they did.
That is a well-thought-out answer. I respect that.
I will not deny that FF has potential- however, in its current state, it has none at all. The worst offender is the graphical style- Metroid just should not be done with cartoonish characters whose heads take up a whole fourth of their bodies. Just, no, especially as Metroid is one of the very few more “mature” series Nintendo has, it should keep the styles presented in such entries as Super and Prime.
Clean it up from there, and it could begin to get better.
Whether they announce it or nit, they haven’t even gotten started. We’re 2-3 years from anything worth while from the Metroid IP. Which is great, because I have no reason to get the NX day one. I think they will release a scaled-up version of ZeldaU, but that won’t sway me. They will have another Mario, which I don’t give a flying fuck about. Another Smash is way off on the horizon… So, I’ll happily play my NextBox and WiiU until the NX price decrease and bundles. They won’t soak me for day-1 prices ever again.
Again, self-censorship is still censorship. Especially when the guy writing the localized text is not the same guy that wrote the script.
Nintendo is free to censor their own product. We all have choices. Complain if you must but complaining on here is not getting to Nintendo as quick or as thorough as a letter, an email, or through their social media channels.
I hope you are not assuming that just because I’m voicing my opinion on a news forum I don’t follow/contact Nintendo on social media, or vote with my wallet.
No assumption. Assumptions get me in trouble. I’m just saying if it is something you feel strongly about here is good for venting but nintendo is the one that need to hear it.
It’s not even drugging. Both agree to getting wasted, if I’ve read the script correctly. The issue is what I mentioned further down, about the scene being interpreted as homosexual conversion and all that.
Yea, I’ve heard it wasn’t actual drugging from a couple other people too, that’s why I put the word in quotation marks, as that’s what the person I replied to called it. :)
But my point was, even if it was drugging, I don’t see why people support the removal of it when there’s much worse things happening in video games regularly nobody complains about. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m definitely not asking for more complaining from people, hah. It’s just those weird double-standards I don’t understand. I’ve never strongly felt like something should be removed from a game’s plot or story line (and I hope it will never come to that point, haha) just because it would be morally questionable in real life. It’s only fictional after all, it’s not real.
Yeah, I know. What I find completely baffling is that many of the people that approve of this kind of changes say that the other side of the argument is whining. I mean, aren’t they unable to see that they’re imposing changes to the people who actually care about the game?
In this particular instance, most people are either against the change or don’t care that much, but I’ve see a fair amount of posters (here too) making it a pesonal issue, like this is the new console wars or something. Really, I don’t get it.
Yea, I know what you mean. Without wanting to go too deep into what I personally think about the whole issue of censoring/”localizing”, I think both sides (those who are okay with the changes vs those who think it’s not alright) do have their points. However, one of the points I’ve seen the people who are fine with it mainly raise is that Nintendo simply has the right to do it, and they’re definitely correct about that. Nintendo does have every right to alter dialog or outfits in the game to their liking; as long as they wish to do it, they can do it. But, just because they can, does it mean they should? Does having the right to do something make it absolutely okay to do it? To give an example: according to the user agreements or terms of services we all accept without reading before using a product, companies have all kinds of rights to do all kinds of things – but I’m pretty sure we actually wouldn’t be all that okay with them doing many of those things, even though they technically have the right to do it. With gaming consoles, for instance, the developers have the right to drop support for it whenever they wish to, and you can bet that people would be pretty upset if a developer, for whatever reason, decided to drop support for a $400 gaming console only a couple weeks after launch. But they have the right to do it, so it’s okay, no?
Other than that, I definitely enjoy and am very open to having nice discussions with people who have a different view on something than I do, as long as the conversation is civilized and they make valid points, reasonably explaining why they see it the way they do. But I agree with you that in relation to this matter, a surprising amount of people seem to turn it into a personal issue, and there sadly aren’t many people who are capable of discussing this decently. At least personally, I haven’t seen too many people who made valid points that support Nintendo’s decision of changing some things in their games.
(Don’t get me wrong though, there certainly are people who you can talk about this nicely and have a good conversation with) :)
The fact that drugging exists in a video game is not a problem to me. I’m not that easily offended. It’s a problem because the protagonist (a customizable avatar that is supposed to represent the player in-game) is the one who does it, and because Soleil seems to have no issue with it whatsoever, and even ends up marrying the perpetrator. It’s the difference between “drugging exists,” which is fine, and “there’s nothing wrong with drugging people without them knowing,” which is disgusting. If Corrin was like “Hey, I’ve got an idea. Maybe this magic powder could help you get used to cute girls. Do you wanna try?” then it wouldn’t be a problem. If the character doing the drugging was a bad guy and Soleil had a problem with her drink being spiked, then it’d also be fine. I’d feel the same way if it were in any other medium. People that insist that Walter White from Breaking Bad is a good guy even after all of the terrible things he did in that show bother me for similar reasons. (The difference obvious difference there being that the content itself is saying that in FE, not delusional fans.)
You have a good point. In this particular case, as the protagonist, you should probably be given the option to decide for yourself if you want to spike her drink.
I see what you mean, and it certainly makes more sense to me if you put it that way. Thanks for clearing things up. :)
“We did it, cause we can.” Is basically what it comes down to lol.
That statement is 100 percent correct.
This can be said for all of their games in particular. I remember back in the day when no one bats an eye at censorship in Mario or Pokemon games.
Are marriages triggered automatically in these games? What if I like pairing my character up with a support but don’t necessarily want them to get married; will I have a say in the matter or do they just get married when they reach a certain point?
>>>Just pair up the ones you want to get married the most and they’ll get married>>>
Each time a unit finishes a turn besides another one of the opposite sex, their affinity grows. Once it reaches a certain point, you can see a conversation between the characters (the so called support conversations). This can happen up to three times (supports C, B and A) between same sex units (unless they’re homosexual) and up to four times (supports C, B, A and S) between opposite sex units. Once a unit reaches level S with another one, they marry, and they cannot reach support S with anyone else.
Even if two units reach the required affinity for a level S conversation, you still need to manually check the conversation so they can marry. They won’t do it unless you choose so.
Ok thanks that answers my question. This will be my first time playing a FE game and I just wanted to make sure my character doesn’t end up doing something I don’t want them to.
Seems weird to me that people are just starting this series with Awakening/this one. There’s a first time for everything, I guess.
It’s just not a series I was ever exposed to. When Marth and Roy joined SSB, I had no idea who they even were.
I’m also always a bit wary about getting into any older series because when I do I feel like I have to go back and play all the games I missed. I actually didn’t get into Metroid or Legend of Zelda (TP is what got me hooked) until about 2008 and then spent the next several years going back and playing every single one of them.
To this day, I’ve never played a Final Fantasy game either, and seeing as it has like 100 main games and spin-offs, I’m scared of what will happen when I do.
None in the west knew who they were back then (especially in Roy’s case), though. I get what you mean with feeling like you have to play the previous games before jumping into a sequel, but Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy are series with very self-contained titles. You can play (mostly) all of them in whatever order and it’s not like it matters at all.
However, if you feel like checking out previous Fire Emblem games, the first and second one were remade on the DS. Shadow Dragon (1st) is a very barebones remake, but Heroes of Light and Shadow (2nd) is very beefy in content, and very well designed. It’s probaby my favorite Fire Emblem title.
Thanks for the recomendations. If I like this one I’ll most likely check them out.
I had heard the FF titles typically stood alone in terms of story. I’m seriously considering getting the VII remake when it comes out. I just hope it comes out on more than just PS4. (Crossing my fingers that a Nintendo release might actually be possible. Although I doubt it.)
Only if it turns out to be good. They are on the path to running it through the mud.
How so?
It’s episodic.
I did see that and I saw some people complain when it was announced. I can understand the decision though. The original was so big it was on like 2 or 3 discs, and they’re adding even more content to the remake.
I’ll be ok with this as long as they don’t try to charge $60 for each part of a single game. Then again, for all I know they may be doubling the amount of content of the original and each part may have enough to justify $60.
It’s not only that, but the problems that come with episodic games too. It’ll probably have weird pacing and a very polished first chapter that will be the second coming of Jesus compared to the rest.
I certainly hope not. Time will tell I guess. They’ve got all year to work on it. They better do it right.
From what I’ve heard, Final Fantasy 7R be structures more like FF13 was. We’re the story is split into 3 parts, but each entry is a “complete” game.
You all have to admit, drugging someone into marrying you is pretty damn awkward.
This wasn’t supposed to be a reply but whatever.
That’s not what happens. Please read this:
http://www.destructoid.com/the-fire-emblem-fates-controversy-clearing-up-the-muck-295232.phtml
You can only marry someone after you already got an A Support with the character (there’s C, B, A and S) and you keep pairing them together, so there’s no trouble of accidently marry someone. They only marry if they got S Support with your character.
In Awakening, units did not couple up until their S-support conversation was viewed. I believe it will be the same here.
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>>>I’ll make things even more “controversial” right now, enjoy humans>>>
If religious people are offended by this they should stay offended. It’s funny.
Other way around. The way I understand it, they removed the scene because it resembles ‘conversation therapy’, the method religious extremists use to ‘straighten up’ homosexuals.
As usual, when Nintendo gives a legitimate (and obvious) response, the majority will still choose to keep their eyes and ears shut.
There’s no greater fool than the one who chooses to remain ignorant, even when an understanding is given to him. This is just like they said; LOCALIZATION. Welcome to the year 2016! Stop being a bunch of entitled, whiny babies. It really is pitiful. It’s not gonna change. Deal with it.
Stop being a whiny baby about us complaining about this stupid, retarded change. It really is pitiful. It’s not gonna stop us from complaining. Deal with it. Good day, corporate slave.
Then explain exactly *how* they answered to the controversy. I don’t see anything except “we thought it wouldn’t be okay here.” What they didn’t answer was the most important thing: WHY did you think it would not be okay? You can’t say something would not be okay and then not explain why.
Let’s say a doctor tells a patient that a recent test they took came back with some worrying results, but then said doctor would not say WHAT the problem was. Would you be okay with that? If you have common sense, then no, you would not.
They pretty much said” We do what the fuck we want to do, stop complaining”.
Lol, in some way, I actually like that. I’m waiting for the day when someone at Nintendo finally gets sick of everything and goes postal on everyone. I would love to see Reggie get up on stage and be like
“JUST SHUT THE HELL UP WILL YOU!? I’m sick and tired of all this complaining crap! How’d ya like if we just stopped localising games all together!? Go screw yourselves! Go over to Sony or Microsoft if you hate us so much! I’M OUT!
It’s mostly the stupid weeaboos who are crying.
I’m still getting the game regardless.
That would never happen. He’d get up and say “Not my problem,” and flip off the whiners on the way out.
Nintendo digs their own graves. Gamers are agressive, but they are the ones that give them their money. Some of the crap Nintendo pulls is minor, but you can’t expect the consumer to continue to take whatever you throw at them. Nintendo shouldn’t be run by fans, that could be just as bad, but Nintendo doesn’t make the smartest moves either.
I will laugh if Reggie ever does that. It’ll be the ultimate nail in his coffin. Like Don Mattrick, his days running NoA will be over because the fans that aren’t blind fanboys will crucify him for that outburst. Nintendo will have no choice but to either let him go or demote him so far down the food chain at NoA that his head will fall off.
If you fuck with your fanbase, it’s over because when a good majority leave, you are screwed. To this day, the Xbone is still suffering from what Don Mattrick said to their fanbase at the time.
Just give me the same amout of fucking shit that the japanese have then I’m fine.
What a load of crap. Nothing but bullshit excuses.
It’s more than late to Nitendo make their systems region-free and with native multi-language support.
End of case.
Still find the changes unnecessary. I’ve seen things much worse than this thrown in people’s faces through TV, social media, and even everyday life. The original conversations are there for a reason, why change them? This isn’t the only thing they changed in the game either so be prepared
So when do we get a new advance wars anyways?
This is not explaining, explaining requires they tell us what they found so offensive that had to be taken out, or who they felt was going to be offended.
This is why I have no issue with other changes, like when they altered the Gerudo emblem or when they gave Lin slightly less revealing clothing, it’s easy to see exactly why these things were done, but what exactly is the issue with Soleil and Corrin’s support?
I’d just wish the sites reporting on this would give people a clear picture of how the cutscene actually goes and gave some insight into the characters, because otherwise we’re swimming in a sea of gross misrepresentations brought up by censorship-happy imbeciles who can’t be bothered on researching anything on their own.
Firs off, Soleil is not a lesbian, she’s a shallow person who judges people by their looks and thus considers a girl’s cuteness to be the end-all of what can be considered attractive. She does not find all women attractive (Only extremely cute girls) and cannot marry women (The only female character who can is Syalla), and her supports with men mostly involve her learning to appreciate things other than cuteness.
Second, her supports with Corrin involve her complaining about how she gets so easily distracted by cute girls and how she considers this to be a weakness, and a series of experiments done by the two to help her get over it, not to change her sexuality, but to help her focus better on the battlefield.
Yes, the drink is given to her without her knowing it is spelled (Which is about the only thing that could be considered strange), but she is told about the spell right after she’s taken the drink and she is perfectly aware of its effects and 100% in on the experiment, she’s not being cheated into seeing Corrin as a woman so she can fall for him and it is clarified this was a thoroughly unintended consequence and all the spell did was allow Soleil the chance to connect with Corrin and see him for his virtues without feeling pressed by her prejudices against males.
Third and most important, even with the weird “spiked drink” element (Which could be very easily changed without removing the whole support), there is nothing more offensive here than there was in half of Tharja’s supports in Awakening, where she constantly spells people, mostly men, without their knowledge to get something out them. So this begs the question as to what kind of message Nintendo is sending here; are they saying it’s ok and cute when a woman does it even if it’s just for self-serving reasons but it’s wrong and evil when a man does it even if it’s to help someone?
This is my issue. Previous Nintendo censorship was easy enough to rationalize and get over, but this stems from either a disgusting misrepresentation or a huge double standard.
Thanks for that. I didn’t really have the time or the patience myself to spell it out so clearly.
One of the big problems people have with this is they think Soleil undergoes some kind of sexual orientation conversion, but the fact of the matter is, she is never able to have an S support with any female anyway. She will only marry men, regardless of the main character’s actions.
Pretty much, yeah. Going by game mechanics characterizing the characters, she’s not even homosexual. At most, she’s bi, if you’re willing to give the writing more weight than the mechanics.
The bigger question I have when this type of situation happen is how does it affect my enjoyment or playability of the game. We never know who is advising on some changes. Is it the delevopers, management, or lawyers. They could give a reason but will the reason really be needed. If no one told you about the change would their be decision about it. As much as we would like a response of the direct issue, it most likely will never happen.
Discussions not decision.
Somebody actually read the script? Stop the presses! I even made the same comparison with Tharja’s supports in a previous thread, too.
Hey. I’m totally fine with this. I think that was going out of what Fire Emblem was supposed to be and crossing into some dangerous territory. Plus, it would have made a lot of people feel really awkward I’m sure.
Pretty lame for them to do this in FE where some people truly enjoy the scenes and build up of the social aspect.
Just vote with your wallets, like I did early on ignoring this title due to the 3 way split on the title.
If you people think this is weird, you better not check Genealogy of the Holy War.
I’ll take your word on that, then.
Now I’m intrigued.
This explains nothing at all. No reason as to why they removed the scene entirely- just “oh we just wanted to.”
This is the equivalent to a kid just answering “because” when they get reprimanded for doing something bad- no weight to it at all and not a real/acceptable answer.
Thank God they aren’t in charge of The Big Bang Theory! He has to get drunk in order to be able to talk to women! In other words, he has to be drugged in order to talk to women. Oh right, right! This is being done to a woman so it’s evil! Nice double standard ya got there, guys!
Damn it! I could have sworn there was more to this comment!
A character named Raj has to get drunk in order to be able to talk to women!* Fixed!