The Legend of Zelda series producer Eiji Aonuma has been on an interview spree presumably because he was in the USA for The Game Awards 2023. In a new interview with IGN, Aonuma was asked about those fans who have expressed a desire for a more traditional Zelda experience than the open world adventures we have had with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Aonuma says that he understands that people enjoy nostalgia, but questions whether it is simply just that.
It’s interesting to hear you say that because one of the discussions that I’ve seen among Zelda fans is some of them saying, “Gosh, I miss the more traditional linear Zelda of the past.” And I’m wondering, how do you feel about that given the direction of the series toward a very free-form, open-ended kind of design?
Aonuma: Well, I do think we as people have a tendency to want the thing that we don’t currently have, and there’s a bit of a grass is greener mentality. But I also think that with the freedom players have in the more recent games in the series…there still is a set path, it just happens to be the path that they chose. So I think that that is one thing I kind of like to remind myself about the current games that we’re making.
But also, it’s interesting when I hear people say those things because I am wondering, “Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you’re more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?” But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect.
It’s not really linearity that people want. They just want some more dense and thoughtful designs for their dungeons again. I think fans would be thrilled with a BOTW-like overworld but have unique dungeons dotted throughout the map that are more like traditional Zelda dungeons. That’s all I want, at least.
I’d like it if they created an open world game that’s closer in size to say, Twilight Princess’s map (but not as boringly empty). That way they could focus on making a refined Zelda experience that’s similar to BotW/TotK, but with all the normal Zelda ideals that they abandoned when they first made the leap to the huge open world.
That’s why I’d actually love an Ocarina of Time remake using the TotK engine. It’d be smaller in size than the two new games, but we’d have those same Zelda traditions and designs from back in the day but with the modern control and feel that people are used to now.
I want to have less freedom to be honest. I want you to tell me a story, not me telling the story.
Your Nintendo goddamn it. Figure it out.
Maybe if these last two games put as much effort into dungeon design as they did the overworld, less people would be complaining.
It’s not just about linearity, and I’m tired of people acting like that’s the only thing that changed. There’s also every item being disposable (and side quest rewards being different because of it), shrines being completely different from dungeons, music presentation not being the same, etc. The most frustrating thing about the shift is how rabid the fans have become. I’ve had people tell me I was a troll for suggesting BotW and TotK were anything but perfect, and said I wasn’t a fan of Zelda because I didn’t like 2 out of the 18 mainline titles. They’re like the Pokémon fanbase now with their inability to hear the slightest critique.
The original game was open world. You had to explore and figure out where to go and some things could be completed out of order. So I don’t really get the whole linear desire. For me BOTW was the evolution of what we got with the very first Legend of Zelda.
Nostalgia. At least someone finally gets it. I think people wanted that type of linear to return in the series since people are still bringing it up about it.
Aonuma in particular seems to have a really hard time seeing games for anything other than raw gameplay. It’s true that going back to more linear game design would technically allow players to “do less”. However, saying that is completely missing the point. Not all people play games just for the gameplay. There’s so much more to the medium of video games. Some people simply enjoy a good story and want to experience that in a way what only a game can deliver. Others want to overcome tough challenges specifically crafted by game designers. Yet again others just want to be creative and do whatever they feel like. Some of those things work best in an open, sandboxed style of game – but not all of them. Some of them clearly work better in linear, more restricted games. It often feels like Aonuma very deliberately misses the point when people say they want “more linear” games. He reduces games down to just “number of things you can do = fun”.
He’s basically turning into Miyamoto who also has this problem. A shame because it’s for this reason I was happy Miyamoto passed the LoZelda reigns over to Aonuma because I thought he thought differently from Miyamoto. It’s also this thinking that fucked up Paper Mario.
Before Aonuma it was Koizumi. MM was mostly influenced by Koizumi even though that was Aonuma’s first time as a co-director.
It’s not just nostalgia. For many of us, we don’t have the time (or the patience) for huge open world games anymore. Even if you don’t have to do everything, it’s still a bit overwhelming and you tend to think there’s no point playing it if you don’t have time to finish it. I started BOTW and played a good amount of it before life got in the way and then too much time passed to remember what I was doing so then I had to start over. The classic formula lets you play in shorter sets of time. I know you can do that with open world too but it’s different.
Plus it’s not a case of being “limited”. It’s just a different gameplay mechanism. I was hesitant about Zelda being open world, even though I know the first one was. The difference is, an open world NES game is far different than a much bigger open world Switch game. It wasn’t as overwhelming. And when I play Zelda, I want to explore every nook and cranny, so the bigger the nooks and crannies, the more overwhelming it can be when you don’t have the time to fulfill your OCD, lol.
And I find limitations give birth to creativity. Look how great so many classic games are—and still hold up—because of limitations. They had to figure out how to do this and that with limitations. But I don’t see older Zelda games as limited. I don’t want hand-holding, but I also want a little bit of a direction to follow without having to think too much. I want to solve hard puzzles and all that, I enjoy thinking for all that, figuring out what to use and how to proceed, etc. But I don’t want to spend time remembering where I was running to 2 days ago and which of the hundreds of little places I had or hadn’t explored. And while cooking, crafting, etc. is fun, it can also get sort of cumbersome after a while. I know earlier Zeldas also have weapons that break and all that but you go back and buy a new one. Not go hunt and explore for material and then go craft them… again, more overwhelming when you have limited time.
I would love a realistic Zelda that’s top-down and/or isometric view with transitions to more modern gameplay at times, sort of how Metroid Dread does a fusion of classic sidescrolling and 3D battle mechanisms. Some puzzles could be in 3D. There’s just something that gets lost in the more recent Zelda games. They’re not bad by any means, but they’re a different feel. Wanting the classic formula is perfectly valid for fans of that style, it doesn’t have to be limited.
Oh I forgot to add to me being hesitant about BOTW being open world, that I ended up really liking it more than I thought I would. But I still would rather go back to the older formula. Not necessarily permanently. Revisit this style later. But don’t make the next dozen games like it. There will be fans that want the classic style, there will be fans that want the newer style. So just alternate and give some variety.
Also, to add to the bit about starting BOTW over, I never did finish BOTW even though I really wanted to, because when I had to start over, I decided to play a different game altogether. It’s not that BOTW was bad by any means, I just didn’t wanna do all that again.
Funny enough, I love the sailing in Wind Waker (which is a bit more like an open world) even though the majority tend to say they don’t. But that felt different. Plus you could set it on auto and just grab the controller when you needed to do some fighting or treasure hunting. It was relaxing! It wasn’t really any different than having to run everywhere, not sure why people complained about it so much.
…ugh……. He’s starting to say stupid shit. It’s becoming bloody Sakurai all over again. All I’m starting to hear is “Ridley too big! cue the South Park “dumb dumb dumb” song“
I don’t mind the open world, but it was way too big. I spent more time aimlessly walking with no plan. Just wasn’t as fun. If things were closer together, maybe that would help.
Another major thing that was missing that has always been a part of the games is the music. Call it nostalgia if you want, but it’s something that has been part of nintendo games since day one.
This game is about being a hero and saving the world. You really don’t get that feel when you aren’t pressed to progress with the mission at hand. Just because there is a trend in open world gameplay that creates viral videos for stupid stuff, doesn’t mean you have to make every game that way either. You have your open world “masterpieces,” let us be a real hero again.
I would LOVE a more linear Zelda title again. Not for nostalgic reasons, but for re-playability reasons. Of course BotW and TotK are amazing games in their own right, but once I beat it, I don’t really want to play it again. They’re more tedious (imo). But other titles like OoT, MM, TP, SS, tMC, Seasons, etc, are playable again and again. You beat it at 100%, feel accomplished, move on for a a handful of months, then you wanna pick it back up again and start over. THAT’S the feeling I miss. THAT’S what I want to play. I want to play a new Zelda title that has an “end”.
I totally get it and I know alot of people do really love these changes but I honestly think my problem is I’m getting older now and I’m just not a super avid gamer anymore and I haven’t kept up with gaming enough to truly enjoy and appreciate the more modern game mechanics. So kinda disappointed it sounds like they won’t go back but I understand. I at the very least hope maybe some day they will meet more in the middle. I always liked how elders scrolls games are where it’s very simple and easy to follow the main story line if that’s how you want to play and then from there can explore and play any other way you want.
I’ve left video gaming for all kinds of personal reasons. (all positive reasons, nothing sad or dark). But I still like to lurk on Nintendo news sites and I’d like to comment on this. BOTW was one of the final games I played before selling everything off and I LOOOOVED it. I loved the prior Zeldas as well. I was in jr high when TP came out and that was my first Zelda. I went back to play WW and OoT. I’ve played some of the older, top down ones, but not all. I was all about SS when it came out. So all that to say, I don’t feel like my Zelda vision is rose colored because of nostalgia, but just cause I’ve always enjoyed what Nintendo came up with. And BOTW really was a mesmerizing experience for me. I almost don’t like how much I still think about the game. But there is still so much to properly explore with the OoT format. Nintendo just got bored too quickly with that type of game design and I feel like the got tunnel vision on how they were able to create variation between games. There is no reason why younger team members shouldn’t be allowed to cut their teeth on reimagining top-down or OoT style Zelda games.