Shin’en Says Wii U GPU “Several Generations Ahead Of Current-Gen”


Nintendo centric developers Shin’en claim that the Wii U GPU is actually several generations ahead of the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. The development studio believes that developers need to harness the systems strengths to get the most out the system and concluded by saying that the Wii U specifications ultimately fit perfectly together and make a very efficient console when used right.

“The Wii U GPU is several generations ahead of the current gen. It allows many things that were not possible on consoles before. If you develop for Wii U you have to take advantage of these possibilities, otherwise your performance is of course limited. Also your engine layout needs to be different. You need to take advantage of the large shared memory of the Wii U, the huge and very fast EDRAM section and the big CPU caches in the cores. Especially the workings of the CPU caches are very important to master. Otherwise you can lose a magnitude of power for cache relevant parts of your code. In the end the Wii U specs fit perfectly together and make a very efficient console when used right.”

Thanks, Nintedward


    1. I can see where the graphical power is, texture and lighting. The fail is not having enough power to display a heavy amount of characters or AI. Seeing how 3rd parties are aiming for 50+ player online and massive worlds tis next gen

      I have faith in Nintendo, they have not failed in my eyes….Ever

      1. The article clearly states that the gpu is generations ahead of the current gen consoles, which it clearly is. Just look at comparison videos on YouTube for proof. It doesn’t mention the PC at all, so there should be no argument from that faction. He doesn’t state that it is ahead of the other next-gen consoles either. The truth is that the Wii U does what it was designed to do and it does it well. End of story.

            1. And keep in mind that the game in this video is a port, not a game developed exclusively for the Wii U that fully optimises it’s hardware.

      2. What you’ve “seen” is only the mere fraction of what it is capable of. I think that is the point this developer is trying to convey.

        1. I agree completely, and I’ve said this countless times before. As developers get better at navigating and pushing the hardware, the games will improve over time. Look at the differences between Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 3, right up to the modern Far Cry 2 and Far Cry 3… Big differences, same hardware. And if the games that we’re getting already look like Pikmin 3, then I’m looking forward to what the future holds.

        2. It doesn’t matter. The Wii U will be irrelvant ot thir-parties once will be irrelevant once the PS4 and crapBox One come out.

          1. Even though Nintendo already has stated they are working close with third party devs to help with game development? Something tells me you don’t do much reading, do you? Also, Hashtagging places where it doesn’t makes sense, makes you look like a bigger fool then those you are accusing.

      3. dont forget that the games released for the WiiU thus far use game engines built to the specs of other platforms (PS360). and no 3rd party dev has attempted drawing power out of the console yet they write it off. The Wii U is next-gen, Iwata and Reggie have hinted at that before.

      4. Wow you dont know anything about coding do you? Thats not how AI works nor does it lack power in displaying large environments

      5. Where did you hear this nonsense? The CPU in microsoft/sony’s nextgen console is absolute trash. Its a netbook/tablet CPU.

        This only confirms that SOny and Microsoft made a huge mistake last gen in creating consoles with big beefy CPU’s instead of big beefy GPU’s.

        PC games development mostly centered around GPU’s, because of the radical nature of PC owners having radically different CPU’s.

        Titles need to run on as many computers as possible, so they develop games completely around the GPU, the faster your GPU, the better your game looks and runs.

        Nextgen all 3 companies are taking a GPU centric design away from one that relies heavily on CPU.

        If you think Sony/Microsoft’s new console will handle AI better then last gen, then I don’t know what to tell you except the AMD Jaguars are pretty weak sauce compared to Cell/Xenon… I wouldn’t expect anything earth shattering in that regard with such weak CPU’s.

  1. Fucking bullshit. Nintendo is still behind… Can’t even manage to persuade 3rd parties even when they promised 2 years ago. 2GB RAM? This is fucking 2013.

        1. No it’s not.
          And even if it was, Xbox One has about 3 OS’s. how much ram does that eat up, for pointless shit

          1. Lol…XBoxOne needs 2GB for each OS so that leaves 2GB of RAM left for games. The PS4 only has 3GB of RAM for games: Killzone demo was said to be using that much!!!

              1. And don’t forget that Xbox VCR will use that piece of shit Windows 8 and Internet Explorer…

            1. Which is ridiculous because as good as that Killzone demo ooked it should not have taken 3GB of RAM to do that. Not even half. My guess is that the reason why Sony and Microsoft put all this RAM into their consoles is because of lazy developers that either don’t know how, or refuse to optimize.

                1. its nice they have a lot of RAM but regardless the OS’s will be bulky and sloppy as well as run in the background thus is why they need 8 cores. I am not impressed by specs on a console i already have a PC, give me great first party games!!!

            2. Your facts are wrong. The Xbox One’s operating systems only use 1GB per OS, so that’s 5GB for games. The PS4’s operating system uses 1GB and has 7GB available for games – Killzone: SF’s demo was using ONLY 3GB of the available 7.

          2. It’s been confimred that 1GB of the Wii U’s RAM is to run the OS. And even with the three OS on the Xbox Lost the\ it still has 5GB for games.

            But PS4 will dominate them both with it’s 7GB of GDDR5 RAM for developerws to work with.

        2. it’s just reserved not actually used.. you don’t really think the OS uses 1 GB of ram do you?
          i’m guessing that as little as 256MB would probably already suffice

          it’s not completely out of the question that nintendo would make more of the ram available via a system update

          1. ”the large shared memory of the Wii U”

            What do you make of that ? . Does that mean the 2GB’s is shared ?

            1. not sure why you’re asking that but yeah
              shared by the GPU and CPU.. but that’s been known for some time

              1. I was thinking they were implying the entire 2GB of RAM is shared… Rather than having 2 separate pools.

                1. it’s already been confirmed that 1 GB is currently reserved by the OS

                  not actually used.. just reserved

                  1. The 3DS had this too. Developers requested to lift that and Nintendo did. The same thing happened with the Wii U so, more than likely, the newest dev kits implement this.

                    1. dev kits usually have a lot more ram than the consumer consoles anyway.. what counts is what the devs will eventually have available on the consumer consoles

                    2. Which goes back to the rumor a few weeks ago of the last system update unlocking the clock-speed of the CPU and GPU.

                    3. how does that relate?

                      i never heard anything about a “ram upgrade” when that rumor emerged

                      anyway it would be entirely possible for nintendo to free up more ram.. maybe they’ll do it

        3. I barely often touch a gig or two… I buy what I need… My comment was sarcasm

        4. You trolls still talkin shit? lol. Have fun with your $799 deluxe version of ps4, and lots of $70-$80 games lol, only to try and be closer to PC, which WIIU will do also lol.

      1. That’s not a comparable figure, your computer needs 4gb of ram to work, because you run multiple things at the same time

      2. My gaming pc only has 6. The power isnt in the ram. The power lies in the cpu and graphics. Bioshock infinite only uses about 4 gigs, so you are not behind.

    1. >Developer comes out saying the Wii U is indeed more advanced than PS3 and Xbox 360.
      >”A hurr datz bullshiet eavyreone naowsz nantundo zucks lel 2 gb e ram im le mastur troll”.

      Typical haters.

    2. Are you a developers? No. This IS a gaming console, it doesn’t need nearly as much RAM as a PC does.

      It was also 2006 when Sony put 256MB of RAM into their PS3, you know, when cheap computers came standard with one 1 or 2GB.

    3. Nintendo, with the GameCube being tech-wise superior to the PS2, still had a hard time trying to persuade 3rd parties. Your argument is invalid. Good day.

      1. Hmm. I wonder why? They make the same fucking mistakes ever since the N64. They give developers their needed kits, and they don’t do shit. Developers strayed away from the Shitcube partially because it’s Nintendo and that damn awful controller.

        1. AT LEAST the Wii U had a Graphics Jump!!

          Have fun with your PS 3.5 lol

          1. That same argument could be made against the Wii and PS360.
            “AT LEAST the PS360 had a Graphics Jump!!

            Have fun with your GameCube 1.5 lol”

            1. Nope. Because
              “AT LEAST the Wii had unique controller!!!”

              PS360 used the same controllers over and over again…..

              1. That’s cutting into an ENTIRELY different argument. We’re talking about apples and you’re talking about picture frames.

                1. No, we’re both talking about JUMPS.

                  Gameplay jumps are more important than graphics jumps.

                  1. No. He was talking about graphics.
                    You were talking about control methods.
                    You can lump anything into a general topic if you want, but it still doesn’t change anything.
                    You might as well have said:
                    “No, we’re both talking about VIDEOGAMES.

                    Videogames yadda yadda videogames.”

        2. It wasn’t cause of power or how difficult to develop for, its was up to the publisher when it came to the GameCube. PS2 and PS3 were big pains to develop for.

          I could only find an excert from the discussion, but this should give you at least a little insight:

          And despite the lack of, the Gamecube didn’t sell all that much less than the Xbox, it was just the PS2 sales were so far ahead.

        3. Xbox more powerfull than Gamecube.

          Metroid prime 1 better graphics than Halo
          Metroid prime 1 60FPS Halo 30FPS

          Lol wut ? good developers are what really makes specs worthwhile.

          1. Metroid Prime looked good because of all the amazing Art and over textured surroundings…. Very smart move :) i might get flamed for saying this but i think Wii U will have a handful of games that will blow its rivals out of the water.

            1. Same. Nintendo + HD = a force to be reckoned with.

              They Will make games that make our jaws drop that much is certain.

            2. Of course the haterz come out the woodwork everytime something good is said about WIIU lol. What a minority they are grasping at straws lol!

        4. Gamecube controller still stands as a technical marvel. One of the best controllers ever made. You need help xbot lol.

        5. lol gamecube controler awful … you fucking suck at videogames retard. Go hide.

                  1. hey scrub, when you can bench press HOwards mom on Big Bang Theory then you can talk shit. The GC is the 3rd greatest console of all time behind the NES and the 64. Without Nintendo where would gaming be? Ask Atari if you need help with an answer you small fat man. Power= PC gaming, quality gaming = Nintendo, gimmick = Xfail and PS

                    1. How do you feel ? tell me how do you feel to be the ultimate looser ? … you can cry you know .. lol You know you will loose the war right … the war of the next gen.

                    2. I will lose the war of the next gen? Nah bro, I’ll be buying everything next gen!

                    3. good … see you in the next super smash bros. then … prepare to be anihilated like the fucking noob you are lol..

                    4. You sound like one of those 12 year old swagbros that infests CoD.

                      I’ve always played smash bros locally and never really online, so thankfully, I won’t have to deal with you swagbros.

    4. Lol, you can tell when someone has no clue about computer hardware because all they can comment on is the RAM. Who knows more about the performance of computers, a random idiot that goes on a Nintendo news website just to insult Nintendo, or a professional software developer?

    5. Don’t blame the tools, blame the carpenter. While you are at it, blame your limited brain.

    6. Battlefield 3 didn’t even use 1gb of RAM, so I barely see a problem. In fact 8gb of RAM in a console is actually very pointless. PCs need a ton of RAM because they are multitasking monsters. They are literally running hundreds of tasks while a game is running, when a game box suggests a certain amount of RAM, the game will not use even 1/4 of that RAM, it simply suggests all that RAM to keep plenty of headroom for the game and multitasking to operate at the same time. Consoles, however, have one, maybe two, tasks running other than a game, so all that RAM will never be fully utilized. IMO, it will be wasted RAM. 80% of all the current gen games that came out last year only used roughly 500-700mb of RAM while running on PC.

      1. If you don’t believe me, run a game on a PC, then open the task manager to see how much RAM the game is using. At most, a graphic heavy game will use 1.5gb maximum.

    7. Wait you are complaining about 2gb but 512mb in the PS360 didn’t bother you?

      Sounds like you hate Nintendo just for the sake of hating Nintendo.

      1. Listen moron, that tech is more advanced than your backward IOWA brain. Let us see you make Mario galaxy on the original Wii, the highest rated game todate. It is morons like you working at microsoft that thought the VCR Betamaxbox was a great Idea.

        1. I thought it was Ocarina of time? Oh and to add to what you said, The Wii U is backwards compatible and has no DRM and has the most high tech controller. i would rather have all of that than just prettier graphics.

      2. Ignoring that if Nintendo consoles and software are so worthless, why did Move design and All stars copy something worthless?

    1. Well, there’s a rumor going around that Sony’s also putting used-game-DRM into their PS4. After all, they haven’t confirmed it wasn’t.

      So, if this were true, it’d make sense why they’re shying away from Nintendo. Nintendo doesn’t endorse this. ;)

      1. @Josh..I believe it’s more than a rumor. There’s no way Microsoft would do this if Sony isn’t doing it also. Microsoft isn’t that stupid.

          1. I think your reading and comprehension is flawed.

            Sony, when asked, gave a very generic open ended statement, it wasn’t confirming or denying.

            Their exact words were “You can play used games on the PS4″….

            well you can play used games on the xBoned as well.

            If Sony had no plans to do DRM/used games like Microsoft, they would have come out and said “We will not charge a fee for used games, it will be just like the PS3” and be done with it, but their cagey answer that sounded more like Obama answering a question about the IRS.. depends what the meaning of ‘is’ is.

            Sony has in fact filed a patent last year called disc tagging… meaning each disc will be tagged with a serial number. Now why would they even bother if they had no plans to do something similar to Microsoft… Both Sony and Microsoft are held hostage to big time publishers like EA. Sony/MS NEED 3rd party games to be successful. Nintendo on the other hand are completely capable supporting their console all by themselves and have the luxury to tell EA to go pound sand.

            1. true, but knowing that Sony declined the Always On feature(which, by old news, it was going to be real)
              maybe the Sony is waiting any <S announcement to see the reaction and change stuff

    2. It does make A LOT of sense actually. Ever hear of the PS3? Well this is very similar to what happened with that console. Developer didn’t want to go the extra mile to take advantage of the hardware.

    3. Ok it just has a small install base. That’s a pretty big reason.
      Also lack of DRM pisses a few bitches off (EA)

    4. It’s suprising that the Wiiu can run games like ME3 , AC3 with basically the exact same code as the 360. As shinen is saying those games are not using basically any of the Wiiu’s full potential.

      Frostbite 3 could easily on Wiiu ”also your engine layout needs to be different” .

      1. apparently cryengine 3 works perfectly well with the wii Us tech.. i don’t see why FB3 shouldn’t

      2. well the Wii U can run CryEng 3.0 just fine, and Cry engine 3 absolutely ape rapes Frostbyte 3….. So either DICE is lying or their engine is sooooo bloated and unoptimized that its not even worth using the middleware to make any games, might as well buy cryeng 3 to get performance and superior visuals.

        1. apparently Crytek is currently working on a U exclusive with the new engine which is why it did not get any recent Crytek games. can we hope for a new Franchise? it is or it is Metroid HD!!!!!

    5. Exactly. So there will be an inherent level of transparency of 3rd party studios with the Wii U. It will be easy to see which studios are truly talented, and which are completely lazy.

    6. That’s exactly what it means.
      Devs want to take the quickest, easiest, laziest way out of developing a game that they can, these days.
      Its why CoD Ghosts didn’t even bother switching the engine it runs on.[yes, they lied about using a new system; they just buffed up the old one a little]
      That amongst many other examples.

      Developers from a lot of third parties haven’t figured out how to best use the Wii U’s architecture for developing their games, and the moment they see that difficulty and compare it to stuff that’s similar to what they are used to from the PS360 being used on the PS4, the lazy ones slide wide of the Wii U.

      It’s one reason why EA isn’t doing many games for the Wii U, besides not liking Nintendo for saying Fuck You to Origin.

  2. funny that when the WIIU gets some good feedbacks, only then, do you guys decide to let it be known you still monitor wiiu, and are so sad to be the first to post on it XD thats pretty sad.

  3. Nintendo’s home consoles are always a step ahead, the only problem is nobody gives a Shit to bother, does anybody care about the effects, and the work that has gone into that, Nintendo say put work into it and it will look the best, what the fuck are people argueing about HELLO Nintendo.

    1. Fucking Nintendo fanboy kid.
      Explain the Wii. No way in hell did many developers profit from that shit. Only company that did was Nintendo and their shitty party/mario games.

      1. Because Square Enix goes well on the PS360… o wait not, they are close to bankruptcy

      2. Why explain the Wii to someone who’s still damage controlling the sales it got by blaming them on “Casuals” as if that’s a bad thing?
        Go home, Ness. You’re drunk.

      3. Yeah Ness, ignoring PS3 COULD’NT prevent Sony from selling their head quarters….ouch!!! Also ignoring that Ness stated Nintendo was doomed but admited that Nintendo made a profit from wii…ignoring he conflicted with himself. How can Nintendo be doomed then Ness?

      4. Fucking dumbass Darwin-award-candidate shit-eating Nintendo-hater.
        Explain how every third party that supported the ps3 and 360 lost shittons of money trying to cater to you little shitbirds. Nintendo is the only thing keeping games alive. Hurry up and fuck your tractor so we don’t have to worry about more tards like you polluting our world.

      5. You mean the shitty mario game that was the most ciritically acclaimed game of the last gen, or heck the best game of all time?

        Yup, Galaxy 1/2 ran roughshod over Sony’s very best games.

  4. How can it be “several” xD that’s silly, i call bullshit on that.

    But yeah, thats the way its designed, its an “Exclusives console”, you make a game from the ground up on very specific hardware you get alot of advantages.
    It’s like the CELL processor in the PS3 on a multiplatform level its a pain in the ass, but on exclusives thats how you get games like Uncharted and Killzone, although Sony’s traded that specific hardware for a more versatile and easy of use which is good for them being a multiplatform system but for Nintendo they can and should design custom specs.

      1. Well i lack information when it comes to that, but the rest of my comment still stand.

        1. Yeah your comment is spot on! I’m just saying they’re refering to GPU generations as in how many different GPU’s have come out between 2005 and now… Like the way AMD are always making new GPUS 4X , 5X , 6X blah blah blah.

          1. “several” could be as little as 2 .. i don’t see why shin’ens comment should be incorrect

            even if they based the gpu off an R700 (which still nobody is sure about) it would still be true (2 gens ahead) however this GPU is obviously heavily modified.. and i doubt the modifications were made so it would be *less* advanced than the R700 chips :)

            1. Indeed. Someone found it had roughly 350 GFLOPS. but 30% of the GPU was unknown. That 30% is thought to be more fixed function shaders. which would bring the Wiiu up to around 500 GFLOPS+

              1. it would be pretty much impossible to measure the exact performance in that case.. obviously fixed functions are not able to perform general tasks but are instead very fast at specialized tasks which is why you can’t just measure GFLOPS performance

                the only way to tell performance would be visual quality.. i guess come e3 we’ll know just what the wii U is capable of
                who’d be able to make the wii U hardware jump through hoops if not the nintendo EADs

                1. True! It was proven though. Don’t let people tell you it’s only ”50%” better that’s BS. That’s coming from the same source that said….. they couldn’t work out what 30% of it was.

                  1. well they couldn’t work out what the 30% are :3

                    and chances are they never will.. identifying the purpose of components on a dieshot isn’t that simple^^

                2. The fixed shaders is about 40% the gpu that hansnt been fully understood(tesselator is also fixed and thats pretty common in all newday gpus), its true that we cannot determine gigaflops just like that, but whats important is that fixed shaders are more powerful than programmable shaders, there are tests that indicate 150% 200% better performance depending on the complexity of vertex and pixel shader combinations, in contrast, programmable shaders are more flexible to use for programmers, kind of like the difference between high level programming and low level programming. So in few words, these undetermined fixed shaders+programmabke shaders(the discovered part of the gpu compared to an rv770) could bring a total of even 600 gigaflops performance

                  read this article

                  When developing applications in Direct3D today,
                  developers can choose between using the fixed function
                  pipeline and the programmable pipeline . The
                  programmable pipeline is more flexible than the fixed
                  function pipeline, but what is the price for high
                  flexibility? Is high flexibility desired at any cost? How
                  is the choice of pipeline affecting performance? The
                  purpose of this master thesis is to evaluate the
                  performance of the two pipelines. This will be achieved
                  by developing a benchmark program, which measures
                  performance when various graphical effects are tested.
                  The results of the evaluation will hopefully help
                  developers to decide which pipeline to use, in terms of
                  performance. In the end we will see that the fixed
                  function pipeline is faster than the programmable
                  pipeline in all our tests.

                  RESULT PRESENTATION
                  This section will present the results of the performance tests that were produced
                  with the benchmark program. Section 5.1 shows the results in a table with FPS results
                  and how much faster the fixed function pipeline is compared to the programmable
                  pipeline in percents. Section 5.2 shows the results in a graph presenting how the FPS
                  change during the tests, and Section 5.3 presents the results with screenshots showing
                  visual differences. All test cases were run five times and the results were the same
                  every time.

                  View attachment 185755

                  View attachment 185756

                  6 Fog
                  In the last series of tests, when using different combinations of the fixed function
                  pipeline and the programmable pipeline, fog was tested. There were some visual
                  differences, but only when using the fixed function pipeline, as shown in Figure 13.
                  Compared to fog with a vertex shader, the performance difference when using only
                  the fixed function pipeline was relative small, 1,5% at low complexity, 4.0% at
                  medium and 5.5% at high. But when using both a vertex- and a pixel shader to create
                  the fog effect, the fixed function pipeline was exceptionally faster. At low complexity
                  the fixed function pipeline was 139.9% faster, at medium 165.3% and at high 180.4%

                  View attachment 185757

                  After having completed this research, we can draw the conclusion that the fixed
                  function pipeline always beats the programmable pipeline in terms of performance,
                  from a tiny bit (1,50% for vertex shader fog and fixed function fog blending with low
                  complexity) to a substantial difference (180,40% for vertex shader fog and pixel
                  shader fog blending with high complexity).
                  The advantages of using the fixed function pipeline is obvious; it is always faster,
                  and there is no need to implement the vertex- and pixel manipulating operations, since
                  they are already implemented.

                  On the other hand, the advantage of using the programmable pipeline is that a
                  great amount of flexibility can be achieved when creating graphical effects. In the
                  fixed function pipeline, the vertex- and pixel manipulating operations are already
                  implemented, thus, they look the same for everybody. In the programmable pipeline
                  however, these operations are implemented by the developer, giving him or her
                  possibility to create effects that are impossible to get from the fixed function pipeline.
                  Depending on the need for flexible effects, different combinations of the fixed
                  function pipeline and the programmable pipeline can be chosen, achi eving the largest
                  amount of performance for the demanded flexibility.

                  Even though these test results, with the FPS difference percentage, presumably
                  only correspond to our exact test setup, we think that our conclusion is correct in
                  general, at least on graphics hardware on the market today.
                  In the future, tests should be done on other resolutions than the one we choose,
                  also other different graphics cards should be tested on to see if the results will be the

    1. there have been several genetarions of hardware since the 360 and ps3 came out, so yes, they are talking abouy ps3 and 360 (:

    2. Nintendo never will design custom specs. They’re fucking Nintendo, they don’t do shit.
      But I can tell you what they will make during the slow death of the Wii U: A fucking Wii U Mini.

      1. Xbots never learn. Your Engineers are dumb and lack vision. On top of that you morons buy and pay for xboxlive. You pay to watch netflix twice. How stupid do you have to be to be forced to buy a free service really?

        1. I fail to see how they are dumb and lack vision when they are able to make morons continually pay for their service. I would call that kind of clever.

      2. Hey, respect Nintendo. Gaming wouldn’t be where it’s at today if it wasn’t for them.

        1. Actually no one can say that for sure. For all we know someone else could of come a long and made the industry better than what it is today. Or it could of been dead.

          1. or you could be dead ! :) Cant fuck you retarded shemale gf in the ass to make shit larva babies.

              1. Ohh …poor little kid … my comment effraid you a little hm … want to be hug ? STOP CRYING LOL !

                    1. I’m happy to be a loser if it means I’m not a perverted retard like you :D

      3. “Wii U chip clarification: It’s a ‘Power-based microprocessor,'” @IBMWatson stated in a Twitter post.

        “Pardon the error. It’s a ***CUSTOM*** chip built on Power Architecture base,” the company said.

        Please just, go away. Stop embarrassing yourself, your family, and the homo-sapien race.


      4. sometimes your comments are fairly insightful.. at other times they are utter shite.. how comes?

        it has already been confirmed by chipworks that the GPU of the wii U is a heavily modified AMD GPU.. apparently so much so that AMD didn’t even print their own insignia on the die

        1. What I can’t understand but not complaining is why is the Wii U specs the most talked about? What’s special about the GPUPU and its catch even if it still is not more powerful than PS4?

      5. “they don’t do shit”


        ha ha


      6. Slow death of the Wii U? You wish. Your problem Ness is you want to play Nintendo games on your Sony console. Strange is I have not yet seen a Nintendo fan saying Sony should go 3rd party.

      7. has already done it in the past, gamecube was pretty much custom architecture with a modified cpu and gpu

        IBM, Mike West:

        We probably could have been prepared if we had to go on that runway, but there were a lot of reasons not to do it. I think we probably have a better product today because we didn’t go out in 2000. We tend to adapt ourselves to our customers’ decisions and go along with those. We certainly would have been ready to bring something out. We’ve been making PowerPC chips for a very long time and are getting quite good at it. But, there are a lot of things that have to line up — a lot of commercial things as well as technical things. Nintendo had seen what happened with the PlayStation 2 initial launch and things, so I think we probably made the right decision. [Jokingly] I mean, we would have liked to have been taking revenue from them a lot earlier than we were, but that’s the way it goes.

        IGNcube: There’s a sort of general conception that Gekko is just a basic PowerPC 750 and IBM didn’t really modify the core that much. Is there anything you would say to dispel that conception?

        IBM, Mike West:

        There have been some recent articles on the web that have that view, which is a little surprising. We presented a lot of details at Hot Chips and the Embedded Processor Forum, both public domains. But, Gekko is a lot more than just a PowerPC 750 and it is an integral part of the system.

        IBM, Mike West:

        You have to understand what’s done with the floating point unit. It is the conventional 64-bit PowerPC floating point unit, but the adaptations we made to it allow two simultaneous 32-bit calculations to occur. Basically each instruction is completed every cycle.

        IBM, Peter Sandon: Right, and I should say that it is a significant effort to implement the paired-single floating point function beyond what is there in the standard PowerPC.

        it also seems that gekko was the first processor to implement paired singles(2x32bits) in contrats to the powerpc 750 series back then

    3. Also, shot in the dark..

      These guys are making F-Zero.
      Go look at a game they made called FAST. Yeah, they’ve gotta be making F-Zero.

      1. nah.. team’s too small
        i doubt nintendo would leave one of their key franchises to be made by a team that’s like 6 or 7 people in size

          1. and what difference does that make? they didn’t release a donkey kong jump and run for home consoles in 11 years…. and when they did release a successor it was still handled by one of their most trusted subsidiaries

            you should know that nintendo never compromises on quality and even if shin’en have proven themselves capable in the past they probably don’t have the manpower to handle a game that would be as big as a successor to f-zero

            i agree that FAST was a very good game however it didn’t have the scope that nintendo likely would deem necessary for a full fledged f-zero successor.. and as we all know the effort you need to put into a game only increases with rising visual quality.. and when shin’en create a game they like to push the hardware to its limits… so i doubt there’s any way shin’en could currently satisfy both their own and nintendos requirements

            1. The difference is that F-Zero wasn’t even TOUCHED outside of SSBM and SSBB for the 8 years between the last F-Zero game (which was Japan exclusive) and that Nintendoland attraction, whilst Donkey Kong has stayed active between the DK Jump And Run games. Donkey Kong, may I add, is Nintendo’s oldest active character.

                1. Huge, if you think about it. Donkey Kong is Nintendo’s oldest franchise; I think they’d hang on to it. Donkey Kong has had other games in the time period. F-Zero hasn’t and isn’t.

                  Doesn’t that say Donkey Kong is more important?

    1. Shinen – Wiiu developer , Nintendo fans that are obsessed with Pushing hardware. Their words are credible , nerdgaffers , are not.

    2. well shin’en have already proven that they’re very capable developers with a lot of expertise in coding and making use of the available hardware

  5. That’s the end of the discussion.

    You put xbox 360 or Ps3 code on Wiiu and UNSUR FUCKING PRISINGLY it doesn’t work so well unless they optimize it. That’s because the Wiiu is a different machine to those consoles.

    Nintendo is not fucking stupid , the Wiiu has much better maximum potential than PS3 and 360. Sick of the stupid fucking debate that goes on….

    1. I kind of already knew this was how it was. I knew there was more than meets the eye with Wii U. Nintendo doesn’t just screw their upcoming console over. They obviously planned out the features and specs to be utilized with their first-party games. Nintendo ONLY makes video games. It’s not like they didn’t have time to plan the Wii U properly.

      Except for the name. Wii U is still a terrible name.

      But I’m interested in whether or not Nintendo consulted third-parties about the specs they would want the Wii U to have. Developers (EA lol) complain saying it’s current-gen but why didn’t/wouldn’t Nintendo ask them before making the Wii U about specs?

      1. “Except for the name. Wii U is still a terrible name.”

        i agree

        but then again i don’t care about names and looks.. if it was up to me they could name it “wii molest” and design it like a turd
        i’d still buy it if it was fun

        1. it still is.. possibly one of the worst names for a console.. ever

          don’t know what the success of the console changes about that

  6. Notice how they said GPU, not CPU. Different standards.

    I’m still waiting for any developer, even Nintendo, to prove the full merit of this statement. Don’t just say it and act like it’s true just because you said it; prove it. It seems Nintendo will be the first to do so during their pre-E3 showing.

    1. Yeah that’s why they made it into a GPGPU. Besides the CPU is customized so it’s not like the Espresso is 3 Wii CPU’s boosted by 50% and ducted tapped together!!!

      1. well according to marcan it is pretty much exactly that
        some slight modifications probably to make it work as a triple core but apparently nothing major

        but then again the PPC750 that the wii used wasn’t all that bad from a performance standpoint.. it has a good IPC performance
        SIMD performance is apparently not great but maybe that can be delegated to the GPU

        1. simd is fantastic its custom 2×32 bit with 4 x compression thats 8 x 32 bit fpu DATA THRU PUT PER CORE

          people dont understand gekko -broadway-expresso

          flout-data-can be compressed by 4 x so imagine wiiu catch of 3mb to cpu its 12 mb under 4 x compression every part of the nintendo system is designed with that in mind from disc to ram to buses to cpu and gpu

          sob if wiiu still uses a 64 bit bus under 4 x peak compression its 256 bit effective


          1. no idea what you mean by compression here.. yeah sure the data can be stored in a compressed state in the CPUs cache.. but the FPUs itself can’t work with compressed data.. it has to be decompressed first

            concerning the performance.. the gamecube cpu already had that floating point performance per cycle

            now if i’m not completely mistaken that should put the wii U CPU at around 15 GFLOPS which really isn’t anything to speak of but for a console it will probably suffice


              and those 15gflops you speak of are x by 4 under peak compression as is all figures if used HONESTLY

              example 3mb catch x 4 = 12mb catch wiiu expresso like Broadway and gecko has 2to1 and 4to1 data compression this compression even applys to the gpu so wen gekko or Broadway or expresso send 4 x compressed graphics data to the gpu via a dedicated fifo custom data burst pipe its real time decompressed by the gpu and visa versa…

              the bandwidth and data is 4x the standard figures due to this magic so the 1.9 gb bandwidth of the wii fsp bus is peak 8gb not 1.9 due to this real time compression trick

              it converts say flout data of 32 bit to intega data of 16 bity or 8 bit 16 bit = 2x compression 8 bit = 4 x compression

              the ram the bus the catch the cpu and the gpu all read it at 4 x compressed

              jesus im taking about shit real nintendo fands new 10 years ago

              its like u guys are apiong crazy DO U EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT NINTY

              1. dude.. posting under 2 different names won’t make your crap any more correct
                and don’t try to deny that you’re the same guy.. you’re making the exact same mistakes.. writing catch.. and flout…and if you can’t even get those 2 words right i dare question your hardware knowledge in general

                FPUs cannot process compressed data
                the data can lie in the cache in a compressed state but it has to be decompressed *before* the FPU can do anything with that data

                that’s all i have to say about that

        2. Who cares what marcan says? He’s a random hacker on the internet that probably doesn’t know jack shit about hardware, only at a very amateur level.

          1. he knows quite a bit actually and he’s also a key figure responsible for hacking the wii.. so i’d be a little more considerate with those statements since he’s quite familiar with the hardware

            1. Hacking it and really knowing the hardware are two different things. As far as I’m concerned he has no more credibility than any other random person in the internet. Besides, the claim that espresso is “3 wii cpus duct taped together”, is amateurish no matter how you look at it

              1. “Hacking it and really knowing the hardware are two different things.”

                if you don’t understand the hardware side of a highly customized console you have no chance of hacking it…

              2. also i never used that expression however it’s not far from the truth

                i made it clear that it’s a customized variant enabled to work in tandem with 2 other cores.. pretty much what intel used to do with their core 2 duo CPUs.. those weren’t true dual cores either.. they were designed as single cores and then modified to work in tandem








      1. it’s CACHE

        fucking CACHE


        and the CPU design is a PPC 750.. that’s not cutting edge anymore.. not by a long shot

        IBM has since developed far more advanced architectures using eDRAM.. for example power7

  7. Personally I think the Wii U specs are still a bit low compared to what we will have in a next generation of consoles. Nintendo is not backing down from the competition, but it has the weakest weapons at advantage. Still, everybody knows that, in a duel, the winner is always the one to shoot first, right?

    Launching the pioner console of the next generation may have its disadvantages at first, but once you get first party titles with the good old Nintendo seal of quality, everybody loses their minds and runs after it. Sure, Sony and Microsoft have always invested in graphic engines and high specs, but Nintendo is always one step ahead in terms of announcing games that make the console worth buying it. The PS4 and Xbox One events of E3 have to prepare some big guns if they want to compete against Super Mario HD, Mario Kart HD, Zelda HD, X, the Retro Studios game, and motherfucking SMASH BROS for both Wii U and the 3DS.

    1. Hardware wise the Wii U is transitional (akin to the Dreamcast) console. It’s as weak as the current console yet not quite as powerful as the next-gen. It’s like the 3DS compared to the PSP…looks nearly identical early on yet shows improvements a year or two later. You could look at it the same for next-gen being Vita and 3DS (the Wii U). It won’t be as powerful but with the right developer it can produce some nice visuals (ie Uncharted GA vs Resident Evil:Revelations)

    2. The Wii U is not underpowered. The XBOX Done and PS4 are OVERPOWERED. Their console are far more powerful than they need to be. As I stated earlier, if the rumor is true that the Killzone Demo needed 3GB of RAM, that is beyond ridiculous. That is just poor programming plain and simple.

      No one knows more about console design than Nintendo. No one has done it longer. No company know more on how to get the the best performance out of hardware than Nintendo. Nintendo has already gone tech-heavy with the SNES, N64, and GameCube. Only with the SNES did it work out.

      Wii U is designed to get maximum performance with minimum cost and resources. It’s like comparing a car with a V8 to one of a V6. The V8 has more horsepower and maybe can get from point A to point B faster, but the V6 can do it for a lot less fuel consumption and at the end of the day both cars have the same top speed.

      It may be easier for lazy bastards to make pretty looking games on the XBOX Done and PS4, but you will still see games just as pretty on the Wii U. It is just going to take a little more work..

      1. doesn’t mean they’re actually working on f-zero.. i still don’t think nintendo would give one of their major franchises to such a small team

    1. I think its only a matter of time before Nintendo buys Shinen. They’re a bunch of German Nintendo fanboys lol!

      Maybe they made FRL as a test for F-zero ? but they recently hinted at FRL 2 for Wiiu and said how they’re using tesselation in it an stuff…

      1. Honestly id be surprised if they weren’t making it. F-Zero needs a good team but not a large one, and considering how similar FRL was, i expect maybe they were working on FRL2, building the engine, then Nintendo said “hey think you can make F-Zero?”

        I hope they are anyway, just because i want other developers and Nintendo’s internal devs to have that franchise out of their hands, so they can make something else instead of F-Zero, which realistically, doesn’t need to be done by creative geniuses, just by people who can make an amazing looking game, that runs super fast and has multiplayer.

      2. shin’en doesn’t have any big franchises yet.. there wouldn’t be much use in buying them other than to buy some developer talent.. but they lack in size so nintendo couldn’t throw any big projects their way.. i not sure if buying them is that attractive for nintendo just yet

    2. This feels more like Wipeout than F-Zero. But yeah, they could definitely make an F-Zero.

    1. CPU are not necesary to be varius generations ahead. Company of heroes runs on a dual core 64 bit CPU and few developers have put better looking games than that on pc.

    2. Wii U direct X11 equivalence. PS3 and xbox360 Direct X9 and its equivalent. Happy now.

  8. Trine 2 developer, Frozenbyte studios said almost the same thing. So did Criterion games, that the Wii U definitely punches above the current weight class. So if the PS360 is a light welterweight the Wii U could be a light middleweight. While the PS4/XB1 will be a true middleweight or Super middleweight.

  9. games have sort of reached a limit graphically without having to spend too much money on them that they don’t make any money in return. what is more boring than sitting in your armchair pretending you are in the military on your flatscreen. nintendo has given us a second screen so who gives a shit about graphics.

  10. Not this again !

    will someone make a demo on some hi-end PC with;

    Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan 6GB GDDR5 running in Quad SLi,
    Windows 8 Pro x64,
    128GB GDDR3 RAM,
    Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition 3.9GHz Turbo Six-Core CPU

    & then run then run the game on a PS4, X1 & WiiU & lets see which is best !

    1. The graphics would look to similar to one another, so similar that no one would care.

        1. Look at my picture. It’s a PS4 game, looks slightly better than the PS3 version. Look at COD ghosts and Forza for Xbox One, then compare it to there previous installments. Exactly. Then compare Titan with consoles, it looks better than X360 and PS3, It also looks better than PlayStation 4 but does it really blow away the PlayStation 4? No. Yes it will have better textured grass and trees and more dust and small things you wouldnt even notice unless you try too.

          1. what i mean is a tech demo, the same demo made on the highest end hardware & then see how it runs at it’s best on the PS4, X1 & WiiU & see which handles the demo the best, people keep going on about how powerful this & that is & its better than this & that, there is only one way to solve the issue.

    2. The demo would be so expencive that they would have to charge for it retail price and no used dmr.

      1. a developer or even Nintendo could get the parts for nothing, build the tech demo & then run it on all the systems.

  11. real gamers already knew this. it’s only retarded clowns that refuse to accept the fact that wiiu is next gen. hopefully devs can learn something and not let nintendo make all the best games for wiiu.

  12. I think of it as this way. Ps3 and 360 graphics were already just right for majority of console gamers. Wii U more than doubled the RAM, better GPU, and most own a tv that can handle 1080p (a few may have 4K). If PS360 games were already adequate and Ninty making a console with better specs, would it not be enough power to improve games (textures, lighting, AI,etc). Nintendo gave us a console that could compete, affordable, gave us innovative controls, improved online and backward compatibility+vc games. That is more than enough. Western developers do not want to touch it because they don’t make enough profit and they have to work on the consoles capabilities rather than copy n paste. Would you imagine how much money publishers need to invest now with PS4 and One? A visually good game but in case does not do good would really put a debt ont heir resources.

  13. Wii U is CURRENT GEN Xbox 360 and PS3 are last Gen. Wii U is ahead of last Gen no shit.

  14. one year head start and microsoft finished last. It isn a marathon and not a sprint. Tell MS that people. They are doing it again with the xbone. Sony still needs jax and daxter though.

  15. Its not how powerful it is. Its how you use the power it has. It aint what you do its how you do.

  16. Best looking game from last generation in my opinion is mario galaxy,even though wii certainly not as powerful 360 and ps3.Nintendo know exactly how set up there consoles without spending to much money and still get best out of it.I know for fact these titles coming up will be far better looking then early games.Even batman although a port had more details in,am expecting some great looking games and of cause it’s nintendo so gameplay just comes natural.

  17. Everything is going according to our design…

    Soon more tribes will join our supreme empire and spread happiness and excellent creative games that capture the lost inner joy of humanity…

    Graphics and Power will never be the focus in our world and the Xbots will soon learn that they cannot continue to take advantage of those brainwashed Xbot slaves to give them more money than they should…

    The Sony Dominion will eventually free itself from the grip of corruption and recover their once great power they used to have before the era of Graphics…

    Shin’en Tribe, you shall be rewarded more and more from our people for your loyalty and hard work!

  18. Hopes this mean we’ll see multitasking as standard, kinda like off-TV play is standard right now.

  19. This is what I’ve been telling people all along. They see raw numbers and think 2006 but it’s all about architecture, instruction set, and features available. The Intel Core i5-2405S @ 2.50GHz (4 cores) can out perform the AMD Opteron 4184 2.80GHz(6 cores) processor. I’m a programmer myself so I understand this more than most.

      1. Not really because it wasn’t fielded in a response to a trolls comment and was directed at the people falling victim to their antagonization.

          1. You were saying that long before I got sick of it. Stop damage controlling you fanboy.

            1. Hey jellybean. How you doing. You doing good. I see you are still posting to me. That’s great have a great day! I love my trolls really I do!

    1. no troll on here is butthurt. their entire goal is to MAKE people butthurt. and they are succeeding

    2. Trolls never get butthurt. They say what they say to get others butthurt. And on this site are always 100% successful.

      1. Ignoring that everytime good news about Nintendo is on here, trolls are no where to be found until the good news becomes idle again!


  21. Developers don’t wan’t to have to work to get good performance. They prefer having loads of easy to utilize raw power.

    They Wii U may have tightly designed hardware, but the only people that care are hardware engineers and poor/cheap people (a crowd that devs don’t make a lot of money on).

  22. So, problems with frame rate and things like that are the developers’ faults? Not the actual console?

  23. If you think Allen`s story is really great,, a month ago my brother in law got a cheque for $8060 workin eleven hours a week at home and the’re neighbor’s half-sister`s neighbour was doing this for three months and got a cheque for more than $8060 in their spare time On there laptop. apply the information available at this link.



    720P X 2 60 FRAMES X 2






  25. gamepad, 2 x gamepad

    pro pad

    classic pad pro

    wii remote -plus


    zapper 2 with gamepad attached

    balance board

    gamecube pad -with wii remote adaptor


    cameras and pads

    i know darn well witch company is next gen and witch 2 are NOT AND NEVER WILL BE

  26. total all included catch memory x360 a edram system and ps4 a all new system

    11mb xbox360 4.5mb ps4 =15.5mb total catch like memory

    wiiU 35mb gpu and 3mb cpu =38mb catch like memory


  27. it would just be easier for most of the industry if they just say we don’t like nintendo

  28. Well I for one think that the Nintendo Direct coming up is going to blow our minds. Warning: Do not get your hopes up. It’s best not to get your hopes up so you are not disappointed.

  29. Theres rumors of wiiu having dual graphics rendering engines in the gpu 99% have 1 engine but theres evidence that wiiu gpu had a cloned 5 eliments the grsphics engines of amd gpus have 5 eliments and wiiu has two identical sets of 5 so its being considered that siiu has 2 graphics engines so its giometry and polygon pushing power is two x the clock speed so if 550 its 1100mhz of polygon power that does kinda make sense

      1. I’m not big on hardware. What does Wii U having more catch then PS4 mean if PS4 will still be more powerful? Why brag about that? At the end of the day, developers still rather work on PS4 than Wii U.






    Pentium 3:
    Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 32 bit * 133 mhz = 1.0 GB/s
    Bus Interface Unit from chip: 23 + 2.9 = 25.9 GB/s
    L2 Data cache to L1 Data cache: 256 bit * 733 mhz = 23 GB/s
    L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache = 32 bit * 733 mhz = 2.9 GB/s

    Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 167 mhz = 1.3 GB/s
    Bus Interface Unit from chip = 11.6 GB/s
    L2 Data cache to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s
    L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cahe = 32 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s
    DMA controller to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s
    Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 256 bit * 485 mhz = 15.5 GB/s
    Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 64 bit * 485 = 3.8 GB/s

    *with data compression of 3.8:1 average data compression:
    Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 167 mhz = 1.3 GB/s * 4 = 5.2 GB/s
    Bus Interface Unit from chip = 11.6 GB/s * 4 = 46.4 GB/s
    L2 Data cache to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s * 4 = 15.2 GB/s
    L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cahe = 32 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s
    DMA controller to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 mhz = 3.8 GB/s * 4 = 15.2 GB/s
    Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 256 bit * 485 mhz = 15.5 GB/s * 4 = 62.2 Gb/s.
    Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 64 bit * 485 = 3.8 GB/s * 4 = 15.2 GB/s

    The Gekko architecture is suited much more for streaming a large amount of data then the Pentium 3.

    Broadway is Wii’s CPU.

    PowerPC 750cxe FX/GX @ 729 MHz
    Front Side Bus: 243 MHz, 64 bits @ 1.944 GB’s/sec
    256 KB L1 instruction cache
    256 KB L1 data cache (can set up 16-kilobyte data scratch pad).
    This leads to 512 KB L1 Cache total

    Normal Broadway interface:
    Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 243 MHz = 1.944 GB/s
    Bus Interface Unit from chip = 17 GB/s
    L2 Data cache to fill buffer 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s
    L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache = 32 bit * 729 MHz = 2.916 GB/s
    DMA controller to fill buffer 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s
    Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 256 bit * 729 MHz = 23.328 GB/s
    Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s

    Broadways data compression
    Data compression of 4:1 average data compression:
    Bus Interface Unit to System Bus 4:1 = 7.78 GB/s
    Bus Interface Unit from chip 4:1 = 68 GB/s
    L2 Data cache to fill buffer 4:1 = 23.328 GB/s
    L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache 4:1 = 11.664 GB/s
    DMA controller to fill buffer 4:1 = 23.328GB/s
    Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 4:1 = 93.312 GB/s.
    Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 4:1 = 23.328 GB/


  32. each expresso core is like 4 x the data thru put of a Pentium 3 at the same clock just a basic example of course expresso is new and far far more effective and has stuff we simply dont know about

  33. Hey all Sonyggers and Microshitters you can all suck this
    ………………„-^*” : : „” : : : : *-„
    …………..„-* : : :„„–/ : : : : : : : ‘\
    …………./ : : „-* . .| : : : : : : : : ‘|
    …………/ : „-* . . . | : : : : : : : : |
    …………\„-* . . . . .| : : : : : : : :’|
    …………/ . . . . . . ‘| : : : : : : : :|
    ………./ . . . . . . . .’\ : : : : : : : |
    ……../ . . . . . . . . . .\ : : : : : : :|
    ……./ . . . . . . . . . . . ‘\ : : : : : /
    ……/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . *-„„„„-*’
    ….’/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ‘|
    …/ . . . . . . . ./ . . . . . . .|
    ../ . . . . . . . .’/ . . . . . . .’|
    ./ . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . .’|
    ‘/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .’|
    ‘| . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .|
    ‘| . . . . . . \„_^- „ . . . . .’|
    ‘| . . . . . . . . .’\ .\ ./ ‘/ . |
    | .\ . . . . . . . . . \ .” / . ‘|
    | . . . . . . . . . . / .’/ . . .|
    | . . . . . . .| . . / ./ ./ . .|

  34. Why consumers, the world, and developers need to realize is Nintendo loves gamers!! they make quality consoles, ever buy a refurbed nintendo? they make the best games period!!! So this leaves me to say buy a PC and a Wii U and have the best of both worlds!!

    1. I agree.

      At the moment, my ‘next-gen’ gaming is going to be PC and Wii U. At the moment, I have no desire to buy an Xbox One, nor will I buy a PS4 any time soon (though I will get one eventually).

  35. So Wii:U is STRUGGLING to KEEP UP with 360 and PS3.

    Forget about the PS4, XBox One and Next PC games that Wii:U will miss out on…
    It has last gen to beat! lol

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