Respected technology publication Digital Foundry has shed some light on the experience of developing on Wii U at the time of the launch. There’s a whole host of interesting information contained within the article so it’s well worth giving the full thing a read. Here’s some interesting titbits from the feature including the difficulties third-party developers faced when developing for the system.
“So a basic comparison/calculation makes the Wii U look, on paper at least, significantly slower than an Xbox 360 in terms of raw CPU.”
“Having worked on other hardware consoles, I suppose that we were rather spoilt by having mature toolchains that integrated nicely with our development environment. Wii U on the other hand seemed to be trying at every turn to make it difficult to compile and run any code. Nintendo had provided an integration of their development tools into Visual Studio – the de facto standard for development – but it didn’t work, not even close.”
“After about a week of chasing we heard back from the support team that they had received an answer from Japan, which they emailed to us. The reply was in the form of a few sentences of very broken English that didn’t really answer the question that we had asked in the first place. So we went back to them asking for clarification, which took another week or so to come back. After the second delay we asked why it was taking to long for replies to come back from Japan, were they very busy? The local support team said no, it’s just that any questions had to be sent off for translation into Japanese, then sent to the developers, who replied and then the replies were translated back to English and sent back to us. With timezone differences and the delay in translating, this usually took a week!”
“At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them?”
first
. :P
Okay, I’m joking.
I know I won’t be able to convince you to stop this anyway. :P
Somehow, the joke got swallowed.
It said like this before the first dot:
“Insert complaining about you declaring your post to be first”
Word of advice to others: don’t insert stuff between the less than symbol or the greater than symbol, as you confuse the commenting system and have it seemingly delete it.
That seems like a bunch of bad excuses for their lazyness. After seeing the excellent jobs Ubisoft did with Assassin´s Creed, EA with Need For Speed Most Wanted and Square Eidos work with Deus EX: Human Revolution, saying that the WiiU is “slower” than Xbox360 and that “it makes difficult to run any code” feel like dumb excuses
“Now, as the fate of the hardware looks uncertain after a second Christmas of disappointing sales”
The Wii U sold better this Christmas than anytime else earlier last year.
Also, how many developers does this article include? And is this a valid source?
Sickr, alba needs to fact check and realize what is good/bad source material. Can we get that last story pulled? Nintendo never lowered sales forecast and some random guy on twitter isn’t a reliable news source.
So “mynintendonews” now not only is Wii U a dead system with no good games. Now it is difficult to work with. How is this garbage news? If you guys didn’t put other real news up so quickly I would never come here.
Wii U has Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD and it’s about to recieve Bayonetta 2, X, Mario Kart 8, Watch Dogs and Super Smash Bros.
Wow, such a dead console with no good games.
You owned him. ^^
Pretty sure he was defending the system and questioning the integrity and validity of the articles being posted.
So we have gotten to the point when fanboys are attacking their own, aye?
Yeah…sadly, looks like it.
The best game on WiiU, in my opinion, is ZombiU
Get White Or Get Out!
So whose word should I take, some developers, who wish to stay anonymous(?), or known developers, who have said Nintendo and Wii U is easy to work with?
And I doubt Wii U is any more difficult to code for than PS3 is.
What some people don’t understand is that if someone tries to even hint that any console is harder to code for than the PS3, the might be full of s#!t.
Bored of digital foundry. 3D world is a fine example of what the Wiiu can do when utilized properly. Plenty of modern graphical aspect that set it apart from the previous gen! I’m enoying my PS4 atm (even though it has no games till Drive club and Infamous) but 3D world is the most next gen feeling game I’ve played so far.
Locked 60FPS has to become a standard for every game soon. 30FPS is making some next gen games feel entirely current gen.
I agree, 3D world was a fantastic game that pleased me greatly. It was amazingly detailed, and I loved looking at the environments. Probably the first time I felt that way about a Mario game. :D Plus, it was nice to see Peach get in on the action and not need saving for a major game. xP
Exclusive and first party games almost always look and work great for the systems they’re made for. The problem comes when multiplatform and indie devs try to code for a system they’re unfamiliar with while (for some) at the same time juggling the development process of the same game for other systems. That’s partially what was explained in the full article, if read.
Learning a new system and architecture will take time to get used to, especially if your whole team’s focus isn’t on that one system.
Nintendo isn’t in the business of making it easier for others.
I found it to be a good article, and it could very well be the reason why nobody wants to develop for wii u. I mean, the 3rd party titles are seriously lacking and even the wii, which wasn’t on par with the ps3/x360, had some 3rd party titles, even silly ones. There may be a small grain of truth to it, since I’m sure overall the sales always influence creators. If I were one, I’d think about the future of my team and ask myself if it’s really worth it. If they don’t make a profit why would they keep going back?
But even the part where having a hard time to get used to the wii u’s hardware. I’ve heard that from somewhere before, and why would a lot of developers take precious time to make a game for the wii u, most likely having to downgrade, just to please a small number of people who currently have a wii u, and most likely not even getting sells from said wii u owners?
It all makes sense to me, and while it’s painful wanting to be a wii u owner and to support it fully, even I now hesitate knowing its future seems bleak unless nintendo release it’s 1st party titles like every two months to keep the momentum going. Nintendo’s chance to drive sells before the new console’s arrived is gone now. I’ll just have to hope for the best on what’s going to be a bumpy ride for nintendo this console gen.
Exactly. Some people say “WiiU is the only console” because ps4 and xb1 are very similar to PC. But what does “only console” bring good here? Nothing. Harder to port third party games.
The reason why Nintendo went for such shady hardware and keeping everything in silence is because it’s as weak as Wii was in 2006 against ps360. Except now third party wont even bother making games on it, when the console doesn’t sell.
Who says the PS4 and the Xbox One’s easy to develope with?
It’s only considered “easy to develop” because it includes PC technology like the CPU instruction set.
That doesn’t mean there’s other factors that influence development.
For starters, most PC game devs work on Windows as that’s the most used desktop computer OS there is. But Windows isn’t the only OS for PC. BSD, Linux, MacOSX (which can only use on a specific brand of PC), etc. are totally different operating systems with different ways to program them.
That said, if I were to choose which is easier to develop on from the Playstation 4 and the Xbox One, it would be the latter, as Microsoft is willing to share some of the libraries used for Windows game developments with their own XBox and I think are unwilling to share with Sony for their Playstation (DirectX comes to mind).
Even so, there might be at least some differences.
Also, BTW, many developers develop exclusively for consoles, handhelds and cellphones, so they might not benefit from the fact that the PS4 and the XBone uses PC technology in an attempt to make it easier to develop to.
It’s hard enough to believe an “anonymous developer”, but when the original article reads like it’s pushing a negative agenda, it’s hard to not wonder if the source itself is trustworthy…
No surprise. WiiU is even weaker than xbox 360 hahaha.
Uh not it’s not. It’s more powerful. Christ…..
i wouldn’t bet my life on the WiiU being able to cut butter … it’s ridiculously underpowered.
WiiU updates come slow … does anyone recall how fast 360 updates came? … how much the 360 improved from launch and now? … very fast.
videogames are stand-alone products … and nintendo can produce those. however, nintendo doesn’t seem to make very good business software … i think microsoft is more experienced in that department.
Well of course they had to update the 360 quick…what with them crashing and whatnot at launch…and from then til now….it’s been what 8 years….of course there are going to be many updates. The Wii U just became 1 year old not too long ago and has received at least 3 updates.
NINTENDO ALWAYS CREATE HARDWARE ACCORDING TO THEIR NEEDS THEY ONLY CARE IF THE HARDWARE RUNS THEIR SHITTY ENGINES AND CODES. AS LONG AS MARIO , ZELDA AND DK FIT IN THAT SHITTY MACHINE THEYRE OK WITH IT.
THEY WONT GIVE A FUCK IF THE CONSOLE IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO RUN THIRD PARTY ENGINES AND CODS. THATS WHY WE ARE NOT GETTING LOTS OF THIRD PARTY GAME THIS GEN. GOOD THING IM BUYING PS4 WHEN INFAMOUS DROPS. YAY
I’ll blow that statement out the window, when CryTek said that their CryEngine could run on Wii U very easily.
I think this article is bogus, and I have never even heard of this developer to be honest. How do we know that they’re a studio that’s just dumped code into the console without really giving it a go?!
I LOVE HOW U ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE WII U HAPPEN LIKE IF IT WAS THE BIG THING. ITS WEAK…. PERIOD. THATS WHY ALL WII U GAMES [ports] LOOKS SHITTY BECAUSE WII U CANT RUN THOSE CODES.
Er excuse me? Batman Arham Origins, Rayman Legends, NFS Most Want U – all ports and run very very well!!!
RAYMAN THE ONLY ONE WHO WORKS 100% PERFECT FOR ME.
ARKHAM ORIGINS AFTER I BEAT THE GAME FREEZES EVERY 5 MINS. NFSMW FREEZES AS WELL THATS WHY I SOLD IT.
Have you ever thought to consider that just maybe it was a software issue…not a hardware one. Like maybe the developers weren’t aware of the game crashes. If the game played perfectly up until you beat it…that sounds like a software problem.
That’s exactly what it is. Just because a game freezes is not due to the hardware, it’s due to the software not being written properly. Darksiders 2 froze a few times on me, but I was able to work around them – it was a direct 360 port which is the culprit for that.
If the game was designed from the ground up then I reckon the freezes wouldn’t happen. In fact to prove that, I haven’t had a single freeze or even a single frame rate issue on 3D World – that’s because it has been properly written.
Rayman Legends wasn’t a port for Wii U. =p
they said it would run but there is no game yet and no game coming that runs that engine or anything graphically next-gen looking. when they actually make a game UE4 or crytech or frostbite 3 or whatever and run it fully on wiiu then call me XD
wii u is just like a wii.
in 2006, wii was comparable to original xbox. it had less processing power and slightly more gpu, and twice more ram.
in 2013 wii u is comparable to 360 in the same way. it has less processing power, slightly more gpu, and twice more ram for games
WiiU = Wii.
Is that necessarily a bad thing. I owned both a 360 and a Wii for a brief period of time, but I enjoyed the Wii more than I did the 360. I’m not saying the 360 is a bad system, but I ended up liking the Wii a lot more. Mostly due to one game, Xenoblade.
How we know what you’ve claimed isn’t bogus either? It goes either way.
http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/13459000/ngbbs46ad1af9060dd.gif
How do you know the Wii U is weaker than xbox 360 because some unknown developer had a hard time working on the system.
^Was thinking the exact same thing. Shows who the “developers” really are.
No one wants to actually take control of the power and put it to good use.
Funny really considering Nintendo have been making their own hardware before Sony and MS.
I just read this on a different site, with different rid bits, bout to read the whole article. It states the CPU was better once they looked at how it was intended. Using the CPU the way it was probably intended and then using the out of order processing with its GPU prob would have really worked for them early on, since that’s how most next gen games will work….but this is launch, they did not have the manpower, time or money to develop it the way they wanted, and after that the higher ups have been playing wait and see…he also mentioned that nintendo always makes the hardware sing, but because of the cost to do it right on wii U since it’s so diff from ps360, and similar too but behind the other two he is scared that unless it’s a third party exclusive projects may not get green lit….
Reblogged this on Curiosidades na internet.
MyNintendoGossip
Lawyer Mom: “Sorry, but his can’t be true. Why? Because Nintendo is the best company ever, and my kids love them very much”
Judge: “I concur, madam. Therefore, I declare Nintendo innocent of all charges.”
Kids: “Woohoo!!!!!!”
*all kids start dancing*
If only it was that simple.
Another way of looking at this is to enjoy the games that we got.
Quality over quantity.
Also when 360 and PS3 first came out, developers found it hard to developer for them, but over time they worked out how to exploit the hardware really well, and even after 7-8 years down the line we’re only just starting to get games how they should have really been.
Now Wii U is already getting nice looking games and it’s just the beginning.
Is the console actually worth bashing. I think we need to stop the bashing as they’re getting it in the back of the neck all the time and it’s doing nothing but putting more pressure on them.
If 3rd party don’t want to do anything for the console, then that’s their own problem for not learning the system. It’s tiring and annoying reading the same thing over and over again.
Even some developers are having problems with X1 and PS4 hardware.
One thing the developers don’t admit is their laziness to develop. If they want to code, they will require the console to feature existing frameworks. This is what Nintendo should realize. That’s similar reasoning why Sony and Microsoft uses existing PC architecture in PS4 and XBOX One and using .NET framework as well. If the DS came today as a new technology, I doubt developers will embrace it because they need to code and think ideas featuring two screens. Heck this is why they don’t want to develop in Wii U.
Overall it just takes time to learn a console. Skipping it and not even bothering to program for the console is just plain stupid.
Yes but since they skipped Wii U they got no choice but to develop for Xbox and PS.
Then that leads me to my next question: Why should us Wii U owners be without anything to play? I didn’t spend £380 on launch for a console to not play anything.
It’s not fair!
I shall repeat, why should we be penalised?
No one should compensate your stupidity of buying a console, especially a Nintendo one, on launch. If you didn’t learn your lesson after owning a Wii, you deserve to get punished. Now cry…cry little fanboy baby.
Oh shut up, you are as much as a fanboy as anyone anyway! Of course you are going to get a massive boner over trying to downplay Nintendo, it was an early dev kit you moron!
I never owned a Wii I, I went with a 360 ACTUALLY…so don’t you start throwing accusations where you please, thank you!
I’ve been a fan of Nintendo since I was a kid and I’ve previously owned a PS2 as well. I am not a fan boy, but I am sick of people saying Wii U is this and piece of crap when it isn’t.
what a bunch of amateurs.
EA said this after Nintendo said no to Orgin.
The Origin thing was just a rumor that’s unconfirmed.
It’s like just like what Shin’en said.
You have got to use all the hardware in Wii U the way it should be used, otherwise it will look more difficult to develop for than what’s been given.
Use the CPU for only code, use the GPGPU for visuals, physics AI and all that stuff. Use the eDRAM on the GPGPU for 1080p rendering and allow the games to fun faster, use the 1Gb of RAM wisely.
If they put everything in correctly and put in optimised pieces of PowerPC instructions into the games then they would run better.
It’s pointless saying it’s under powered if the hardware is used in ways the game cannot run – then stuff wouldn’t need to be taken out (I reckon that’s the main reason why half of what was said, was said.
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/shinen-interview-on-wiiu-hardware-29398036/
That’s worth reading ^^^
We’ll see what people think about the Wii U when Smash Bros 4 gets released and the next Zelda gets announced.
Next Zelda did technically get announced already.
Yeah that is true. Don’t forget as well the technical demo for Zelda U was impressive and that was a few years ago. I think I am going to be blown away when I see the finished product.
The spec for the GPGPU changed from HD Radeon 4000 or R770 and then went to either HD Radeon 5000/6000.
I reckon it could be the most visually impressive game this year, as well as X.
Does My Nintendo News generate any money for the people that run the site? If so, you’d have to be an idiot not to see that these last couple of stories are click bait.
Thanks captain obvious! Like the fanboy denfence service often loves to say when convinient, “God forbid a buisness trying to make money.”
The full article is completely bogus. Nearly everything they said, throughout the entire thing, was completely shattered by the trailer at the end showing SM3DW running at a smooth 60fps without a single drop of so much as one frame.
“We can barely get it to run last gen games at a solid 30 fps” and yet Nintendo here is running their games at double the frame rate without a single drop of so much as one frame perfectly fine. Ever thought that maybe you should be trying out other ways of making it run faster than trying to tax an already “low end” CPU? Or is thinking not a part of your job description?
I can’t stand it when people try to do the same thing over and over, refusing to try out new things.
But I guess people who deal with ports have proven themselves to be the laziest pieces of shit in the industry, regardless of which system. And really this article proves it all the more- crying that the Wii U isn’t exactly like everything else so they can’t just copy and paste everything and have to put effort into it.
The “10 changes can take 50 minutes” part is the only legitimate complaint throughout the whole thing. And honestly I’m not sure if I believe that after seeing them whine about not being able to reach even 30 fps when Nintendo can do double without a sweat.
Here’s a thought.
Play to the consoles strong points.
Exactly. I mean the X1 and PS4 have both got similar set ups and yet you don’t see the developers crying about their hardware. Even Sony’s president said Nintendo were wise to go with PowerPC over x86, so that tells me that Sony have had to think about their choice.
If PS4 and Wii U were PowerPC then I reckon we would have just as much software and developers would be pouring a lot of time, but that brews another question as to what would happen with X1.
Developers will find they’ll get much better performance off loading quite a bit to the GPU rather than the CPU – that’s the way the games consoles are going now.
Visual Studio the industry standard for creating games? No wonder we need super powerful hardware to run them. Visual Studio is a heap of shit.
Personally, if it’s because those third-parties don’t want to put the effort in to optimising a game for Wii U, then that’s a half-assed response.
Also, expecting Nintendo to work with a rubric similar to their competitors? No. Actually learn how to code and take the time to learn how to do something properly rather than take a Jim’ll fix it approach. I ask you…
Visual Studio is very popular among software developers.
Heck, it can even support plug ins so that one can use other development tools with it.
I know that a compiler called “LLVM” currently has an experimental build where it integrates directly into Visual Studio so that one can use LLVM directly through it.
Erm, “compiler INFRASTRUCTURE”. LLVM isn’t the compiler itself, although the experimental build DOES include Clang, a C/C++/Objective-C compiler that uses LLVM to compile code.
Any programming language can support any number of plugins, but I prefer to code everything in a language that doesn’t hide your mistakes and forces you to optimise. I take much greater pride in my work than a lot of these big developers do, who only care about a product that works well enough with as fewer man hours as possible. I understand that is the modern way, but I refuse to follow that ethos.
As such, Visual Studio will always remain a heap of shit in my opinion. A programming language like Delphi for example? That’s a proper language.
if this article is really true, and it was really written by a developer working on an early wii u-title (to be honest, i’m not very convinced that it’s true) than it show nothing more than what we nintendo-fans always knew – it’s not the hardware it’s the lazy developers/company who delivered nothing more than a cheap port without any new efforts.
if you read the article carefully you can see that they’ve done nothing more than take the old ps3/xbox360 code and compile it for wii u on tools provided by nintendo itself. they knew that the cpu has advanced features and that the gpu is much better and that the wii u has a modern ps4/xboxone-like hardware-desing with a lower cpu and a stronger gpu – but that have done nothing to take advantage of this- like they probably do for ps4-titles.
and god – what kind of developer is this that they know that using the gpu for supportive operations is a modern way to create games, but they are not capable of doing this without the help of support-teams by nintendo??? omg!! this can’t be true.
Did you miss the part where the devs repeatedly tried to get assistance from Nintendo in order to develop for the system properly and barely got any proper response?
no i didn’t!!! but i think it’s not nintendo’s business to help every single developer knowing their business?! for examplfe take microsoft or apple – should they also assist every single developer out there who’s developing for windows or ios? ridiculous
Third party developers must be so great because that is all I hear about. Why some third party publishers or developers do not agree with Nintendo platforms? It is simple. What are the leading games for the PS4 and Xbox One? If you guessed third party games, then you are correct. What are the leading games for the Wii U? If you guessed first party games, then you are correct. Whose games should be leading your platform? And the survey says……first party games! You create hardware for your games. Third party publishers and developers who want to make a game for your hardware submit a request and hope the hardware maker accepts it. The hardware maker should not be trying to convince you to make a game for their system. You should be trying to convince them why they should let you make a game for their system. Third parties have the potential to ruin the industry if the first parties lose control. People can talk down about Nintendo but if there is third party crash, then Nintendo would survive because the main focus is with their first party games as it should. I do not believe the third party developers are a problem but the third party publishers. Mostly, the western publishers. It has been stated before that third party developers have small teams and a short timeframe. The tools are available now but how are they suppose to develop or port the same game with a very small team while the teams for Xbox One and PS4 will have a much larger team. The media can paint Nintendo in a negative light all they want to. It will not change anything within Nintendo. The will continue to follow their model. If the fan base is smaller, they will be fine with that as long as profits are made. As to people who will bring up investors, they do not understand how strong Nintendo is with Japanese culture. Iwata will be in charge for many years.
^And this fanboy-written arrogance is another fine example on why third party devs. hesitate to support Nintendo and very few bother to learn the ins-and-outs of programing games for their systems.
Actually, that response is pretty accurate. If third-parties aren’t going to bother learning the ins-and-outs of Nintendo hardware, it goes against Nintendo for being ‘too’ different, rather than that third-party for being lazy. We’ve seen the result of half-assed ports, and they’re shit. Very few are up to the standard we expect as gamers. The industry isn’t adept/willing to change. On the whole, Wii U gamers miss out, but when it comes to those that sing the praises of the competition, but want to play the next Zelda/Metroid/, they’d want Nintendo to pull out of the hardware business and go software only, because they don’t wish to buy a weaker console where the best quality first-party IP’s are at.
The bottom line is, if no third-party developer wants to develop, be it internal or outsourcing, projects for the Wii U, it’s solely because they don’t wish to pour the resources into bettering their familiarity with the hardware. The Wii U itself is plenty powerful enough. Very few are harnessing it at present, with many more not wanting to. Therein lies the problem. Blame doesn’t solely lie with one party. It lies with all concerned.
I’m happy with my wii u and I have faith in Nintendo! But I’d like to play the games that are announced for ps4 and xbone and purchasing them for pc is out of the question; becuse I live and work in an area where the idea of highspeed internet is a thing of the future. Nintendo better knockn my socks off in the coming months with killer titles or Imight have to do the combo of a ps4 combo. Also an article without a reliable source is sketchy as hell…
Third parties are very lazy. They want everything to be spoon fed to them, hence they prefer PS and Xbox, which are just variants of PCs. The Wii had a level of performance that only Nintendo could extract from it and it’s clear that Wii U will be the same. Of course this is why first party games are so fantastic – you get games that fit the console like a glove.
Do you honestly blame them?
If you actually read the article it is very interesting. Obviously Nintendo has had a rough time with the Wii U. Good news is Nintendo won’t ever make those mistakes again (hopefully) and they are now familiar with HD development time so we shouldn’t ever get a drought again.
We’ll just have to have fun with the Wii U for now and when Nintendo comes out with their NEXT next-gen console, they’ll kick some serious butt.
Wii U is the next Gamecube. I’m happy with that.
Yes, it’s so obvious that Wii U is more powerful than both PS4 and Xbox One. It’s just untapped… This click-bait article is full of shit. There is currently nothing wrong with the Wii U’s management either, and pigs have learned to fly.
*Wii U the next GameCube*
Except its games are selling at lower quantities, even when considering the digital sales that the GameCube lacked (pathetic), not to mention slower paced, a worse first year and has yet to release Smash Bros.
The Wii U has kept me quite satisfied. I can’t wait for Nintendo’s next bowel movement!
that’s in stark contrast to what some other developers said about developing for the wii u, such as shin’en and crytek who apparently made crysis 3 run on the wii u with fairly little effort
i doubt either of them were able to formulate their questions in perfect japanese either
not going to say these guys were being lazy but the whole tone of the article sounds a bit like “we wanted nintendo to hold our hands during development but they didn’t”
if this proves anything at all then that the wii u wasn’t quite ready for its launch
also there’s a slight error in the article
the GPU/CPU aren’t manufactured in 55nm they’re manufactured in 45nm as has been confirmed by the die shots
lol digital foundry did no such thing there a bunch of cretins and not developers IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM
TROLLING AND LYING IS NOT SHEDDING LIGHT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM
IDIOTS TROLLING BECAUSE MARIO KART 3D WORLD SMASH BROS AND DONKY KONG ETC WILL OWN 2014 AND DISRUPT AND END PLAYSTATION
DESPERATION MESURES BY MONGALOIDS
DERP FOUNDRY LOL
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/3rd-party-wii-u-developers-speak/
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