Nintendo

Doom Creator: There Will Still Be Lots Of 30fps Games Next-Gen

John Carmack, the acclaimed developer behind Doom, has mentioned on Twitter that there will still be plenty of 30fps games on next generation consoles. Many gamers presumed that the majority of games would be running at 60fps, but Carmack doesn’t think this will be the case.

Hi John, Do you think next gen we will see more 60fps games on consoles?

There will still be lots of 30hz games, which I don’t think it is a good trade. If TVs didn’t add lag, it would be more clear cut

– Twitter

60 comments

    1. Well of course, it doesn’t matter how overall powerful a system is… They will always push the graphics to the limit until the point where FPS will always be an issue.

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    1. Until i read the article actually thought that was what they were talking about. Thank god it wasn’t. 3D platformers have to make a comeback.

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  1. LOL… so now the PS and Xbox fanboy are collectively walking of a cliff. So much for the Xbox720 and PS4 being SOOOOOOO much more powerful than the Wii U. The bottom line is next generation is going to be interesting with a 3 players (Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft) competing on a near level playing field…. similar to the previous generation of PS2/Xbox/Gamecube.

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    1. Ummmmmmmmmmm You know the framerate of a game is decided by the developers right? It’s not reliant on the power of the console. There have been 60fps games since N64…

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      1. Really…. Do i even have to address your silly comment?? Clearly its not as simple as you try to make it. Do some research and try again.

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      2. Yes but 60fps on N64 was F-Zero X, which is absolutely brilliant, but even at the time did not sport great graphics. A more accurate statement would be that the framerate of the game is decided by the developer in relation to the content of the game. To make something run at 60fps and make it feature all the supposedly awesome graphic/physic effects you want, you need to compromise between the two.

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    2. Games in the past with 60fps:
      F-Zero N64
      Smash Bros N-64
      Smash Bros – Gamecube
      Starfox Adventures – Gamecube
      Metroid Prime 1 & 2 – Gamecube
      Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes – Gamecube
      Metal Gear Solid 2 – PS2
      Zone of The Enders 1 & 2 – PS2 (in most times of play)
      Crazy Taxi – Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube
      Sonic Adventures – Gamecube, Dreamcast
      Dead or alive – Dreamcast, PS2
      Soul Calibur – PS2, Xbox, Gamecube
      And so on, and so on…

      Don’t ever say stupid things like that….

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      1. I do. It apparantly has the power to do 60fps easily according to Reggie. It’s up to the devs to take the time to take advantage of it.

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      2. According to a casual who has no clue about game development whatsoever.

        I’ll listen to the experts, please. No PR talk. Absolutely no Wii U demo shown last year was @1080p and 60 fps, btw. Most were all 720p, no AA, and 30fps–like the Zelda “HD” demo.

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      3. I’d be interested to see proof for this… ive seen a direct feed image of the zelda demo with a resolution of 1920×1080. I know this doesn’t prove that it was running on the show floor at 1080p but it is a more sound arguement than yours…

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      4. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-e3-nintendo

        The proof (which you easily could could have Googled yourself) is all there. Not a single Wii U demo was 1080p; stop listening to LIES.

        Every single source with the information coming from that feed has found that they were indeed running at that resolution and fps. HELL, I WAS AT THE SHOW FLOOR TO WITNESS IT.

        If you want to continue denying the bitter truth of a marginally more powerful console than 6-7 year old devices, then be my guest. More power to you.

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      5. casual? You have no clue about Hardcore/Casual whatsoever (see what I did there?). Which matter in fact is all bullshit. typical elitist game snob…

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      6. zelda was 1080p and reggie stated that wii u can run 1080p native. Dont get jeolous now… with your CURRENT GEN console(s)

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      7. Where’s your source claiming this against the metric ton proving otherwise? Oh right, you pulled that out of your arse too, fanboy.

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      8. I wouldnt trust google anymore than I trust anyone here for “nintendo news”, but Reggie did say 1080p at 60fps, and I trust that. I guess the dev kits at last years E3 weren’t there yet, but the final product should be able to according to Reggie. So if it turns out not to be, you can call him a liar, not the people quoting him.

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      9. Keep listening to lies; the proof was in the pudding and Reggie has said nothing of the sort.

        Thanks.

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      10. It probably can, but it’s hard to make a game look its best when you’re making it for four platforms. That’s why most third-party games will continue running at 30fps (apparently, though, Assassin’s Creed III does run at 60fps on Wii U, which is awesome).

        If a game is exclusive, it’ll be easier to optimize it to run on that platform. Even on Wii, first-party games like Other M (say what you want, it has some fine visuals), Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl run at 60 frames per second.

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      11. Definitely. Devs will have to have an incentive to make the Wii U games 60fps while the others stay at 30fps. Only time will tell if they make the effort.

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      12. Well if the next gen Playstation and Xbox can run natively at that resolution, I don’t see much of a reason for a developer not to make that the standard except to cater to those who don’t yet own TV’s that can support it, or if they can’t afford all the extra render time/computer power. Actually I wouldn’t worry about it. I’m pretty sure this is the generation where 60 to 120hz will become the standard. Its already there in computing and blu-ray, so why not games too?

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  2. I think some people are getting their hopes for the next generation of consoles way too high. It takes quite a cutting-edge console to render most games at 60fps (presumably at 1080p, at that). I think both Microsoft and Sony have felt the reality that cutting-edge is hard to keep on doing consecutively.

    Microsoft might come out with something later that’s just enough to out-power the Wii U (though even they haven’t officially announced a few console yet), while Sony themselves has flat-out said that they’re not even moving on to a PS4 anytime soon. And I almost know for sure that Nintendo’s not going that expensive route. It could be quite a while before we see a console that frequents 60fps/1080p quality.

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    1. Well the reason why Sony isn’t upgrading to a new Playstation system is because the PS3 itself is pretty much a next gen console in its own right because from what I’ve seen from the Kara tech demo, and the fact that the Heavy Rain developers that had developed that tech demo said that was only half of what the PS3 can do then I don’t see why Sony should even bother with a new console anytime soon.

      PS3 is almost future proof, however, with the xbox 360 that isn’t going to last long. Since the console will be weaker than the Wii U as well as the PS3, I think Microsoft will be developing a console that will combat those two consoles but by what I’ve heard so far it seems that they want to go for a more “Family Friendly” approach meaning that the next xbox probably will be only a fraction as power as the Wii U but not even by much.

      The next Xbox is suppose to have Kinect 2 as the controller and most of the games I’m presuming are going to be family games like Kinect 2 Sports and so on. It will probably have the likes of Halo and what not on the system but by what people have heard from Epic Games it’s not sounding too good.

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      1. The reason Sony would release a new console or not isn’t completely about the PS3 being “future-proof.” At some point, demand for the PS3 is going to slow down to a crawl and Sony won’t be making as much income as Nintendo and Microsoft would be since they’re releasing a new console which would instantly create demand and generate new income.

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    2. actually sony said they dont want to enter the console race third like they did last time so they said they want to release a console at the very least immediately after microsoft and have said late 2014 is the window their shooting for…and i personally think sony has the right idea…they plan on releasing a console that will be upgradable which sounds awesome….

      i dont see why its so hard to believe games can run 1080p at 60fps…what has to happen and whats going to happen is developers have to go back to having more creative freedom because somewhere along the way the consumer has been spoiled and only wants to play games that look as close to real life as possible…and other than friendly competition or the challenge to beat a game and its high scores or to use gaming as escapism…we all started gaming because of one of those reasons…

      moral of the story: i absolutely think most games will run at 60fps 1080p but its not always going to be gta or CoD type games it will be the raymans the marios the little big planets and im fine with that

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      1. Sony’s not gonna release a PS4 for a while. They lost too much on the vita and the PS3, and are still recovering from the loss the PS3 caused. Microsoft is most likely to come second with the new console. According to a leaked document, Bungie’s new game, Destiny is supposed to come out for the Durango in 2013. That means that the 720 is most likely going to be revealed this year at E3. E3 2012 just got a lot more interesting.

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      2. @ Chris:

        You make a good point, and I agree like 90% of it, but I don’t think that if Microsoft does produce a next-gen console, that they’ll forsake the market they have the greatest advantage with. They’re still the “Xbox” company, and despite the success of Kinect, the fact is that most Xbox 360 owners (most of their sales) simply do not own or have interest in Kinect. They wouldn’t leave good money on the table like that.

        @ whodatforlife(Link):

        I agree, to a point. I think Sony would love to produce a console, even with the current PS3 sales, and even before Nintendo releases theirs later this year, if they somehow could. I don’t think they would even wait, if they didn’t have to. I can definitely see them supporting a PS3 and a PS4 at the same time–they’ve been doing it with PS2 and PS3 for the longest. But alas, their financial situation right now prevents them from such. I think they’re still waiting to heal a little more before returning to being the “big dog.”

        @ fatneal:

        It’s not so hard to believe that a console can run 60fps/1080p for most of its games–it’s just not likely for this next generation of consoles. Again, I don’t think Microsoft or Sony are interested in taking yet another hefty initial loss in investing towards a new console that’ll cost consumers half a grand again–not this next generation perhaps, anyways.

        With a sore economy for consumers, the rise of the console-less gaming, rising game development costs for game developers, and the high console design and manufacturing costs to keep in mind for such a cutting-edge console with manufacturers, it gets harder and harder to do another round of cutting-edge consoles (at least, so consecutively).

        There’s a reason why both Microsoft and Sony have turned a good much of their attention towards gaining a “wider” gaming market with family games and “less-than-core” gaming–it’s proving to be a good way to make money in these times. Families are turning to digital entertainment more than ever, and it’s proving to be a bigger market than “core” gamers. Whodathunk? But every era of gaming is different, and even though the trend is typically to increase a console’s power by twofold, several factors make it truly unpredictable.

        For Sony, at least, who have put themselves at a full 3-year-loss in heavy initial profit loss just to produce the PS Vita, who have only quite recently began to recover from their heavy initial profit loss going into PS3, who currently have a console (the PS3) in which most games haven’t even surpassed half its total power, who have seen their expensive investments of PS Move and XPERIA gaming phones not churn out the way they’ve hope, and losing a painful 3 billion dollars last year, they are in no rush to produce a PS4 anytime soon–at least, a PS4 made cutting-edge in the same manner PS3 was made cutting-edge for its time.

        And while I do expect a new “Xbox” pretty soon, Microsoft, never really being a devoted gaming company to begin with (but more a multi-billion-dollar software company dabbling in the profitable gaming industry) might not even produce a console (at least, in the traditional sense) to begin with and may just go with a streaming content console similar to OnLive and Roku, since they’re pushing their cloud service and Window 8’s tablet-esque Metro UI everywhere. People forget that Microsoft is the only company of the three game companies that could at any time pull out of the traditional sense of console gaming (or gaming altogether) without hurting the company at all.

        @ Anonymous:

        Microsoft already said they’re not showing a new console this year at E3. It’s been officially stated by Microsoft. http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/15/no-new-xbox-talk-at-e3-microsoft-says/ A new console from Microsoft might be shown next year–though, again, that is if they actually plan to release a new console (again, I have to say that even with all the speculation, Microsoft has yet to officially announce any new console.)

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  3. Well Assassin’s Creed 3 developers are saying that the game runs at 60fps on the Wii U in full 1080p whilst the Xbox 360 and PS3 are running the game at 30fps at 720p.

    I that’s not enough evidence that the Wii U is going to be the most powerful of the next gen console I don’t know what will

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  4. 60fps or 30fps?

    It all depends of developer or the type of game. I loved starfox 64 runing in 30fps and in some points running in 24fps because it looked like a movie!!!! but if you want a speed experience for a racing game 60fps it’s perfect. Games like Metal Gear Solid, Zone of the enders, Castlevania, Call of duty, and others that have a movie feeling is obviously better running at 30fps or 24 fps however this must be constant and with so high level of detail in order to offer a great gaming (or movie) experience. In the other hand, games like Grand Turismo, F-zero, Ace combat, Burnout it’s better at 60fps because are game simulation and racing games (sports games also must have 60fps)…

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  5. I don’t think his comment necessarily reflects the state of Wii U kicking off the next generation. When Wii U gets here, games will be created on 360/PS3 and then ported over to Wii U. Unless you were primarily developed onto PC and engines that shine there, you will not see a huge leap in visuals on Wii U in terms of third party.

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    1. I seriously doubt third parties are going to port over the majority of their games to the Wii U.

      The whole point of the Wii U is to provide new experiences with console and especially with the controller. If all they do is port their 360/PS3 games, the Wii U versions aren’t going to sell as much as new, exclusive games.

      That being said, at least in the launch period their will be a lot of ports but as the Wii U’s library grows, devs will start focusing more on the Wii U as an individual console, not just an alternative.

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  6. Completely off topic but just been reading something on CVG about why Half Life 3 will apparently be at E3 this year and it made me wonder what the impact would be if the game was revealed and the only console release was on Wii U? It’s things like this that Sony and Microsoft try to do to gain an advantage and the sort of ruthless streak Nintendo need to start doing.

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  7. i don’t understand how people still give a fuck about what john carmack has to say, the guy hasn’t made a single good game since when? doom 2? is ridiculous, he is one of those selfdeluded psedu genius, that because he made a videogame and now is failing at rockets, people have to listen to him like he was a freaking prophet. so ridiculous.

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  8. I find it harder to tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps on a console rather than a PC. But even 20fps is a playable level for me, so I’m fine with 30fps.

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  9. i dont care much about whether a game runs in 1080p as long the game is fast and looks decent its fine to me but i here that if a game has more ram fps will increase just like a pc the more ram the faster it will be

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