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Online Multiplayer Is Very Difficult To Add To Pikmin 3

Shigeru Miyamoto considered adding online multiplayer to Pikmin 3 but opted out because the game “would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection.” Miyamoto explains that frames would drop considerably over an online connection because there are too many characters in Pikmin 3. The game will feature local multiplayer when it releases on Wii U this year.

“So in the case of Mario Kart, we did have online multiplayer, and that’s something that… You have to be very careful that you don’t drop frames as you’re trying to sync up with other players over what could be a very great physical distance, over the internet. But in the situation of Pikmin, for example, since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection.”

86 thoughts on “Online Multiplayer Is Very Difficult To Add To Pikmin 3”

  1. That’s not even understandable… What’s with all the real time strategy games like Warcraft or Age of Empires? They worked well online, and I don’t know if there are like 600 Pikmin running around at the same time?

              1. Age of Empires 2 was 1998, it supported 1600 units on the map simultaneously in normal modes and almost unlimited units in custom scenarios (some actually tackled this limit, but it made games grind to a halt ;D).

                I played AoE2 multiplayer on a 200 Mhz PC over 64k ISDN. It went a little slow with 800 units and more, but it WORKED.

                There’s also the “Total War” series which supports multiplayer. It has thousands and thousands of soldiers on the map simultaneously, but here they act in groups, so it isn’t a really great example.

                The PCs are stronger excuse isn’t really valid in this case, because as I said, there were earlier games which supported multiplayer with LOTS of stuff happening. That there are better graphics also doesn’t count, since the graphics are (optimally) all done by the GPU. Also they are actually going for that internet speed is to slow to allow multiplayer…

                We also hat batallion wars for the Wii which supported multiplayer and Halo Wars for the XB360 which does, too.

                  1. Translation: he has a point, you just don’t know how to defend Nintendo for it.

                    Because there is no defense: Nintendo is full of it.

                  2. What the fuck man, just say you lost the discussion if you don’t have a comeback bitchass motherfucker.

                  3. Comparing low res 3D models on a smaller less detailed map to high res 3D models on a heavily detailed map in HD? Seems legit.

                    1. Rendering is done on the console, not over the net. Coordinate information and the like is translated over the net, not the actual image.

                      Your moot point is moot.

                      1. Man, I never read a crap like that… of course is rendering on the console, but the commands are made by others online almost on real time, but is rendering everything twice or 4 times or 6 times on each console…. And don’t compare low res 3D models (like Anonymous said) whit HD models at 60 FPS. Tell me how low res 3D models are easier to rendering compared whit HD res? Really? Have you never turn on HD videos on youtube? Don’t get slower than 480/360p? Do I have to draw for you? My god….

                      2. I think it comes down to resources. It’s definitely possible, but it would take a lot to make a well-functioning multiplayer (time, money…). That also means we’d feel pretty bad when the price of the game goes past what we’d accept to pay.

                        1. Dude it would be to hard because of the captains the movement of the oñion enemies and most of all the pikmin

                        1. You are very fucking right man. Fucking Nintendo just loves to beat around the bush. Wtf. If they claim this is their “next gen” console.. Fucking demonstrate it.

                          I’m usually passive with nintendos shit. But this just pisses me off. Oh but don’t worry guyz, street pass support! Yay!

                      3. Yea, I don’t get why this is a problem. Aren’t there MMO games you can play online w/ the PS3 and the Xbox 360 that have dozens and dozens of different players and NPC’s all moving at once? This makes me think that Miyamoto has unintentionally exposed a weakness w/ the Wii U. I feel like this should be a concern as far as the type of online experience the Wii U can provide. Am I wrong?

                        1. DUDE THERE ARE OMG BUT THE FRAMES DROP NONE OF YOU NOTICED THAT PART? , IT CAN BE POSSIBLE BUT THE FRAMES DROP , LAG MAKES FPS DROP , GOD FUCKING NOOBS

                          1. First of all, you’re an idiot. Stop with the stupid caps.

                            Second, EVERY online game will drop frames if you have a slow internet connection. To not include online play just because that MIGHT happen is fucking stupid. We’d have ZERO online multiplayer today if that were the case.

                            I think I speak for everyone when I say I’m willing to suffer a bit of lag in frames-per-second if it means I get to play against multiple people online from the comfort of my home. We’ve been doing it for years with HUNDREDS of games on XBOX and PS3.

                            Nintendo is just making stupid fucking excuses for their ineptitude now.

                            “Waahh, we’re gonna launch games @ 720p so we can do 60fps!”

                            “Waaah, Wii U will still have shit friend codes, we’ll just ‘update’ them”

                            “Waah, achievements won’t be build into the system’s architecture, so the developers will have to do it themselves (in other words: nobody will bother)”

                            They’re being idiots and ruining what could have been a great console.

                            1. “Second, EVERY online game will drop frames if you have a slow internet connection.” ….

                              Really? Why do you think almost every online game has a limit of units? So, don’t you belive? Ok… go play Supreme Commander with others players online with the maximum units allowed and tell me your adventure…. or go play an old game like C&C Generals ZH online with everyone playing with GLA, so do 200 Combat Cycle (like those with terrorists) with you +3 friends and make everyone to attack at same time…

                          2. I think you can’t compare this to a cod on ps3 or box nor an mmo on a computer. you have 200 and I think 8 leaders so that’s a damn lot

                            1. And there were multiplayer games on older consoles which had MORE units each with their own intelligence on the field… RTSes, that is.

                              1. The difference is that pikmin has a completely different setup to RTS’s. Each pikmin has it’s own animation sets depending on its type (lets say 4 pikmin, of which there are three types each) combined with the fact that the pikmin world is about 90 times more detailed than that of the average RTS. There is also the fact that in pikmin, if you are off by one or two seconds you could loose all of your little guys in one go, it happens.

                                So yes, you could play it online: but loosing one or two frames, or a tiny bit of lag would literally have people saying “GRAH I lost all of them AGAIN” and if you say “then make it so you can’t loose all your pikmin at once?: That isn’t pikmin :3

                                1. I call bullshit. Halo lags more than “a couple of frames” when you play it online, even on a good connection (I have FiOS and it still lags from time to time). And you know what? Nobody gives a shit!

                                  And they’d rather have it lag a bit than have nothing at all.

                                  Nintendo is being stupid. Period.

                                  1. miyamoto jizzed at making fluttery beautiful pikmin he decided his art was more important than offering online. its really his choice. halo creators set out to tell a story and found elements which could exist just by itself. their aim was never beauty despite our own thought of its beauty. miyamoto chose no online and he’ll happily live with it. people just see games as their right to be pandered to. its more and more becoming that and not art. I think you should lay off those who want to make art and not give in to your wiles.

                                2. I have a hard time believing this, but it is easy to forget that this is a Wii port, so there was probably no intention of online originally. They also want the game to be ready by the time the Wii U releases, which is in around six months from now. That being said, I would also be fine with them adding online multiplayer after launch.

                                    1. It is a Wii port. A recent post confirmed that Miyamoto also looked into putting it on the DS or 3DS, but we already knew that the game’s actual development did start on the Wii.

                                        1. Let’s just agree that this game spent a good chunk of its development life as a Wii title but has since been designed solely with Wii U in mind.

                                          In other words, this isn’t a Twilight Princess situation where the game really was a pure GCN port running on Wii with an exclusive control scheme and mirror perspective (this isn’t a knock on the quality of the final product).

                                      1. Where exactly does this quote say that there will be local multiplayer and that it will be releasing this year? Are those just assumptions?

                                        1. It’s actually saying there “won’t” be online multiplayer. And the game will be in the launch window of Wii U, within 4 months of Wii U launch. So it could be early next year at the latest.

                                      2. This just sounds like a lazy excuse because Nintendo is desperate to get the game out in time for launch. Pikmin 3 multiplayer is more than possible over a standard internet connection, just like any other real-time strategy. Jesus, look at something like Supreme Commander, that has thousands of units at the same time.

                                        1. Along the lines of what was stated above, a game like Supreme Commander manages so many units so easily on a PC. Consoles so far, on the other hand, have struggled to capture this with the same kind of ease.

                                          Though Supreme Commander runs on the Xbox 360, one of the translation issues from the PC was the reduction of units. Especially in the case of the first game on 360, there were also framerate issues.

                                          What makes Pikmiin 3 a particular problem in this regard is that it’s simply not designed like most standard RTS games. While in most RTS games the player clicks on a map and waits for things to happen, leaving more processing power open for other uses like the number of units, in Pikmin the world is less static and the player is more directly involved with the Pikmin, the surrounding environment and how it’s traversed. If Pikmin were structured like a traditional PC RTS, online multiplayer with so many units might not have been an issue.

                                          1. The power required to render the game is not dependent (and has nothing to do with) internet connection. You seem to think that it’s translating the actual rendered image over the internet, lol.

                                            Do you even know how games work? When you play online, all that is sent over the internet is coordinate information, player info, etc. The image/graphics aren’t rendered over the internet connection.

                                            Therefore, PC power doesn’t matter: that PC uses the same internet connection and thus same speed to transfer the same info as a console would. As long as they limited the number of Pikimin per online session (very easy to do), then there’d be no problem of the console not being able to render the game, and there certainly would be no problem with sending the information and “syncing it up” over the internet. Like he said, other games have done it with thousands of objects moving around and doing things, so it IS possible to send that much data over the internet accurately.

                                            And even if it dropped in frame rate: who the hell cares? I play Halo online with a signifiant drop in frame rate from local play, and I couldn’t care less. It’s better than NOT having online multiplayer.

                                            This is just a cop-out from Nintendo; a BS reason to not include multiplayer. Just like their BS excuse to run all their launch games at 720p despite supposedly having the power to do 1080p. And their BS excuse to continue using friend codes.

                                            It’s more and more BS.

                                            http://dpadawan.com/article.php?id=1

                                            1. Again, make the test that I propose before said… never mind it… In time, 720p at 60 FPS with AA / 1080p at 30/60 FPS… Thing that just a PC or Wii U can do… But haters gonna hate anyway…

                                            2. so you have to send coordinates of 104 pikmin and how they are moving at that exact second. think your argument through a bit would you? not only do they move around the map they have their own internal movement andand their own jobs all which has to be sent over some wires to your console.

                                          2. hmm, motion controls and no online play….I really hope nintendo doesn’t make a habit out of this with their other Wii U titles

                                            1. You can play with the Gamepad by itself. Granted certain things would be located on the touch screen, so if you wanted to play with the Wii U Pro by itself I guess you’re out of luck.

                                            1. Yeah we can, the graphics are mostly done through the graphics chip. If we strip away the graphics the only chip that should have a noticable drop in load is the graphics chip. After that Pikmin maybe a little more demanding than Age of Empires… And AoE supported 1600 individual units. I don’t think it would be a problem getting that synced… Earlier games did it, so what the hell.

                                          3. Don;t you think that perhaps they tested online and it didn’t work as well as they wanted it to? I’m not certain what it is about online that seems to slow the entire game down, but…

                                            1. So, MAKE it work. This is just them being lazy. They could find a way to make it work if they wanted. They just don’t give a shit.

                                              1. Which brought me to the idea: What if they started giving Wii U and 3DS games the possibility to play together? Playing with Mario Kart users on the 3DS would be quite cool.

                                                1. This is the plan for the next two Smash Bros. games for Wii U and 3DS, according to last year’s E3 statement.

                                                  I was actually hoping that would be a central feature between NSMB U and NSMB 2, but that got nipped in the bud.

                                                2. i mean, of course i expect that game to have online, but i don’t really like MK, haha

                                                  something like Kirby’s Return to Dreamland with online would be perfect to me. any sort of fun platformer

                                                  1. That’s why I was hoping for both the NWMB games to do that. Granted I’ll still play them, especially since you can download them, but it was a bit of a missed opportunity on Nintendo’s part.

                                                3. Pingback: Pikmin 3 Most Likely Will Not Have an Online Mode

                                                4. Everyone is complaining that theres no online is like “Nintendo is lazy!” But if they do decide to add it, it’ll take more time to develop and then people will say “Booo! No Pikmin at launch/window, no buy”

                                                  1. The point being that after this long, online play SHOULD be available at launch. It’s ridiculous for a game like this, in 2012, not to have multiplayer. Absolutely ridiculous.

                                                5. All of us Nintendo fans should know that their online-system never has been the greatest. I’m not really surprised that they couldn’t manage to make something fantastic out of it. And with fantastic I mean keeping the framerate high. I do believe that today’s technology could easily make it possible for an online game to run at high fps. “Even” a game like Pikmin. Even though in my opinion Pikmin is a rather simple looking game. Sure, there are many small creatures running around, but it still is simple looking.

                                                6. Now, I can totally see where shiggy here is coming from but COME ON! Maybe I don’t know much about making games and all this technical stuff but this is the WiiU! It’s supposed to be powerful, so what gives! It surely should be able to handle something like this! This thing is supposed to be next gen! I can let this slide because the system is new and this IS more or less, a launch title, but if this issue keeps popping up, in other games, I’m going to be furious with Nintendo. -_-

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