Nintendo

Doom Creator Says Many Next-Gen Games Will Still Target 30 fps

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John Carmack, the co-founder of id Software and lead programmer behind Doom, has taken to Twitter to reveal that the majority of next generation games will run at 30fps, as opposed to 60fps. A number of people were hoping for 1080p and 60fps, but Carmack has been assured that this isn’t going to happen.

“Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of next-gen games will still target 30 fps.”

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93 comments

  1. im hoping super smash next year but i know it’ll take probably 2 extra years until release (though if they release it in 2013 … (O.O) …)

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      1. It’s pretty much guaranteed being that a majority of fighting games run at 60 fps, and also SSBB, on the Wii, ran at 60 fps.

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    1. If it releases next year. then I’ll be extremely paranoid about it since its gonna be the most rushed nintendo game to date since its only been in one year in development

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  2. In Carmack we trust.

    I think he is 100% right on the whole 30fps for next gen games on next gen consoles because really games aren’t going to look any better on the next gen systems such as the Wii U, Next Xbox and PS4

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    1. I’m sure they will look better, if you play a game like Metro 2033 on max settings on a PC you can see a real upgrade in visuals. The lighting and smoke/fog in some sections is a step above the sort of thing we see currently on consoles, also the textures look much more high definition. Tessellation also makes a difference too for certain types of objects.

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      1. I’d have to agree with you… sort off, because really I don’t see the next xbox or Playstation looking any better than the Wii U. We might see some minor detailing and tessellation but pretty much it will all look the same.

        Also, I don’t see how comparing a PC game that is on completely different hardware and Architecture has to do with the power of the current gen and next gen systems

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      1. We can have all the exclusives running on wiiu 1080p NO PROBLEM. It’s all about how demanding a certain engine or fidelity of graphics is.

        Rayman Legends is 1080p 60FPS ad is stunning with textures and lighting all good enough to be a cartoon or a film. But if Retro say the game needs to be 1080p 60FPS the fidelity of graphics may need to take a hit in order to run it at that level.

        To be honest , I would happily take a 720p 30fps Retro Game that looks twice as good as a 1080p 60FPS one. That being said , everything Retro has ever made has been 60FPS on Gamecube and wii

        Anyway , this absolout OWNAGE to all the people saying the wiiu is weak , and they’re genuninely expecting consoles more powerfull than PC’s :s

        How can a console be affordable , not use up a ridiculous amount of electricity and not overheat and be $400 ? It’s impossible right now lol…

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      2. I think you’re right about Retro, previous games have run at 60fps, they will make their new Wii U games in 720p and go for the same frame rate again, pretty sure of that.

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      3. Retro seems to always want to push a console pretty far with their games. A perfect example is that Metroid Prime still looks great after 10 years. I’m sure they’ll be pushing the Wii U by going full 1080p (I could be wrong though).

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      4. ^THIS take that Aeolus! Can’t wait to see what you going to say about this! where’s your “true next consoles” with 5000 k resolution @ 1000 fps??? haha

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      5. To be fair to Aeolus I don’t think he has ever claimed that the next gen consoles will run 1080p at 60fps as standard, I think he may have suggested the same as Mr Carmack is saying.

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      6. For crying out loud, we know you are Aelous. Stop trying to big yourself up here, your need to be “known” here is both sad and pathetic.

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      7. In my opinion, i really do not care about the leap and the difference in graphics. I have seen games and even played games on pc, and it was thousands of dollars worth of hadware, and while the difference was there, it didn’t affect my gameplay.

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      8. “Expect a console more powerful than PC’s”

        NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT. The console would cost 5 figures if that were the case. You really need to stop making up Bullshit.

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      9. everyone has being saying that you dimented cock. litteraly everyone. You been telling me wiiu is too weak and it will be left in the dust by the next xbox and playstation. even though you have no clue what a maximized wiiu or a maximized 720 or ps4 even looks like…

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  3. Feel sorry for console fanboys who think that next gen will see a big change, they will never know what, according to them is “true next-gen”. My WiiU for nintendo exclusives and some single-player exclusives/multiplats and my near up to date pc for those games heavily focused on online and graphics is all I need.

    Next gen for “720/ps4” will probably just look as good as crysis maxed out did back in 2007 while running 30fps. Samaritan demo in real time and that skyrim game running 100 mods is what we have to look forward as a true leap in graphics, “nextgen” wont deliver that.

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    1. The main ”bottleneck” of next gen graphics will be the COST od developing games. GTAV is going to cost 100M to develop LOL. And it’s gunna be SubHD 30FPS (presumably , maybe native 720p). Not all the developers next gen are gunna have the money to make avatar graphics lol. It’s gunna be loads of Engine based development , And look amazing. But there is basically NO WAY graphics can get much better. I expect to see the End of Jaggies with 1080p and AA etc and steadier framerates with an overall NOTICEABLE bump in Graphics , that’s it.

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      1. Uh Huh. Draw distances needs to go. Assassins creed 3 is a pop in fest :/ . on All platforms except PC. Darksiders 2 on wiiu is supposed to have awesome Draw distance compared to 360 and ps3…

        Next gen- a lot of these little niggles will go. But like begining of the xbox 360 people said ”This looks just like original Xbox” It’s going to be like that but WORSE this time lol ”This is just a 1080p 30FPS xbox with slightly upgraded graphics” LMAO….

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      2. Look at halo 4 it looks amaizing but people have not noticed that the game have removed some gameplay and grafical features that were avalible on remaches like multyple enemies and veicles on screen at the same time.

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  4. I like to see the look on Aeolus’ face when he realizes that the PS4 and Xbox720 won’t “fade the WIIU IL into oblivion” and they’ll most likely be on par in terms of FPS and resolution!

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  5. ha! take that spec whores!

    but seriously, when statements like these come out, haters will simply find new ways to share the hate. but i agree with Mr. Carmack, coz really in the end the by the time the console comes out from sony and ms, their technology is also outdated.

    and i don’t mean this in a bad way, but if specs are you preference you really would prefer PCs coz they’re upgradable and all, and you can have the latest in graphics, CPUs and rams as soon as it comes out, while consoles have to contend with what they have soon as it launches.

    so yeah, the Wii U will be fine. no worries really.

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  6. Well, i believe him and i dont think next Sony/MS consoles will support native 4K resolution and 30 FPS if priced 300-500 $ for example (well, maybe if 2-3 systems paired just like multi GPU for PC), i mean, maybe it will be possible aka it would be good for “tech enthusiasts” but just one system for 4K hmm… i highly doubt, think of it this way:

    1. RANDOM PC: native 1080p and very low settings = 60-100+ FPS
    2. SAME RANDOM PC: native 1080p and very high settings = 40-60 FPS
    3. SAME RANDOM PC: native 720p and MAXED OUT settings = 20-40 FPS (frame drops maybe bla bla)

    Thats just an example, new games are much more demanding (to be more precise, settings)…. some examples: ambient occlusion, better shadows and lighting, ubersampling, FOV, draw distance, better textures. tessellation, “very good AA” and much bigger resolution aka 4K/UHD vs 1080p (1920x 1080 VS 3840 × 2160… PPL just do the math, its 4 times more) and many many more settings.

    Prices for 0h high end GPUs are very expensive (GTX 680 for example…. especially multi GPUs etc) and even that single GPU is not enough for 4K resolution and 60 FPS+ in demanding games/settings.

    Conclusion:
    1st, im a PC gamer and believe me thats just the way it is, i dont know how many PC gamers are following Sony and Nintendo “stuff” and dont get me wrong, i have so many respects for both Nintendo and Sony (especially inovations, games, developers etc), i own a gaming PC and thats why i know this, for maxed out details we need to have a beast of PC really. I mean, dont be blind…. PS4 for example needs to worth much more than 1000 $ for native 1080p, maxed out settings and 60 FPS at the same time aka to be called a TRUE “next tech wise” console and “next gen” is not the right word because it means only “timeframe”, PC is 4ever the strongest and ofc much more expensive. In short words… yeah, consoles are sold at a loss but they need to be very careful because of cometitions (dumping – economy etc… do some research guys)

    Well…. “the lower the resolution and FPS in games the more difference in visuals (settings as described above) we can see”.

    I think next Sony/MS consoles will stick with native 1080p and 30 FPS (big demanding games) and ofc 1080p 60FPS for not so demandign games….. i see no 4K for games if priced relatively low (im not talking about bluray movies etc).

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    1. You are a breath of fresh air on this site. Your spec count and information layout is what most of us know, but tease a certain fellow named ” AEOLUS ” so as to educate his Sony worshipping self. Pretty much gaming is going back to wisdom and smarts, the progressive sense developers like Retro and Capcom shall dazzle us all with games of varying gaming intricacies. Such as game play, graphics, sound, story and overall replay value.

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  7. We’ve reached a point were the boost in graphics will come at a high cost of money and a lot of developers can’t keep up with the intense development. That’s the reason we haven’t seen any next gen games except a few (The Phantom Pain, Watch Dogs, Sim City 5 is all I can think of). And your average non core gamer cant even tell the difference. 1080p at 60fps takes enormous processing…

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    1. Settings…. settings, resolution is just one “small part”, there are many many more demanding settings than resolution and those settings are much more important for much better visuals.

      1080p maxed out settings is better aka much more noticeable than 4K/UHD and very low settings.

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      1. I fail to see what relevance that has, since the topic is about games for next gen consoles, and that is ONE GAME from ONE DEV.

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  8. 30 fps games still look good. People need to stop complaining about useless problems.
    At this rate, games in 10 years will have to be 90 fps, that’s ridiculous.

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    1. Haha, 90fps would be wonderful, one of my friends loves to play Battlefield 3 on PC at 120fps, it can make the difference between a kill or not when playing multiplayer FPS at a high level of skill.

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  9. I hope Sorny makes a console and games that runs 3 Million fps and Gazillion fps.
    Then you only need to pay 500.000€ to buy it and then Sorny is finished.

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  10. okay everyone I was wrong and I see now that Nintendo is the true master of the gaming industry. From now on I will be a Nintendo fan and I will throw out my PS3 and my Xbox 360.

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  11. I had a feeling this would be the case. The graphical “leap” with the next xbox and playstation will not be a big one. It will be smaller than the last leap The Xbox 720, PS4 and Wii U will be on an equal playing field in terms of graphics.

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  12. Some games, not all. More games will be 60fps than this gen, for sure. Devs kinda have to go for 30fps this gen to get real detail out of the hardware because of how old they are. Next gen you can make your game with vastly more detail and still keep 60fps, so more may do that. The Ps4 should have a gpu comparable to the 7870 or better.

    Unless developers want to keep making shitty interactive movies.

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    1. Crucial is an exaggeration. Unless you’re talking a competitive multiplayer game where everyone but you is playing at 60 and you’re at 30, which happens, when?
      Thought so.
      30 does just fine. It also helps lower costs for development, leaving more money to go to other important areas.

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  13. I’ve been saying all along that thete is going to be major disappointment for graphic whores this upcoming generation. A lot of people including EGM and G4’s Morgan Webb are expecting NeXbox and PS4 to have the same graphical leap over Wii U that the PS360 had over Wii. Although it is possible, it would be very expensive for most consumers and so I believe Sony and Microsoft will compete more with Nintendo in price rather than graphics. Now devs can’t use the excuse that the Wii U is too underpowered when it will only be a little.

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    1. Wrong.

      The cause of 30fps target is not because the next Sony and MS consoles will not be as powerful, but because 30fps is the minimum required for a game to run smoothly, and developers would rather have a game that looks THAT much better @ 30fps, instead of a game that looks only decently good @ 60fps.

      The next XBOX will be a significant leap over Wii U. Think about it: the 360 currently has games that are as good or better looking that almost every Wii U game; Halo 4, for example (one of the best looking console games ever, as many publications agree with, and it got the award this year for best looking console game as well) runs at 720p native (which most XBOX 360 games don’t even do that), and it looks incredible.

      Now, it IS still early for the Wii U, but the Wii U isn’t much more powerful than the XBOX 360. It has much more ram, but the bandwidth speed for that ram is significantly slower than the 360’s. The CPU in the Wii U is also quite slow compared to modern gaming CPU’s, and even compared to that of the 360 and PS3. Nintendo DID put much more power into this console than they did into the Wii, but they put most of the cost into the GamePad; not to mention the GamePad itself requires a huge portion of that extra power. And really, saying that the Wii U is much more powerful than the Wii isn’t saying much, considering the Wii was terribly underpowered from the moment it was released.

      The Wii U is only slightly more powerful than what the original Wii SHOULD have been. If the Wii U didn’t have the extra screen to account for, it would still only barely be considered an advance over current gen consoles.

      Considering that the NextBox and PS4 will not only likely focus again on having more power (for more than just pretty graphics, mind you), and the fact that they also have a year or two more before they’ll be released (making more powerful graphics cards and CPUs cheaper and more viable), the difference in raw power will be very significant.

      In simple terms: XBOX720 and PS4 will be a bigger leap in raw power over the Wii U than the Wii U was to the XBOX 360 and PS3, with almost certainty. The only way they won’t be is if both companies decide to “pull a Nintendo” and focus on tablet/second screen integration. Even then, though, with 1 to 2 years time over Wii U (again, allowing more powerful parts to be used for cheaper cost), and the fact that Sony and MS both have no problems selling consoles at a loss, it’s likely that even if they both decided to go that route, the consoles will still be significantly more powerful than the Wii U.

      All that being said: if Nintendo can get their heads out of their asses and stop all these companies that are skipping over the Wii U for big AAA third-party games, and get them to come on board with the console, the Wii U will do fine regardless, and games will still look great.

      As it stands, however, Nintendo is failing on that front. Fantastically.

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      1. Agree with almost everything… but the part “sold at a loss” is a bit confusing. They can make a 2000$ dollars consoles and sell the system for about 300-350 $… yep, they can do it but this would be CHEATING AKA DUMPING. Nintendo can sue them in this scenario etc.

        Wii U is nothing special “tech wise” (especially CPU) but Wii U is not exactly low specs…. the Wii U gamepad is 50% the price (if not more) and the new “bluray like drive 22.5 MB/s” is im sure expensive for them as well… thats why Nintendo is selling the Wii U at a loss.

        BTW, yeah… Nintendo really needs 3rd party support this time around (not just current gen ports)…

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      2. and ofc ARM, DSP, eDRAM, flash memory, 1GB ram + 1 GB VRAM HD Radeon GPU…. many parts better tech wise than PS3/60

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      3. One more thing… Sony/MS and no problems selling consoles at a loss in the same sentence? no, its not true… Sony is in/was in trouble, they were selling PS3 at loss since launch – 2010 year….

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      4. Wrong you little cunt, many believe they will only be 2 times more powerful than Wii U which is nothing significant so suck on that motherfucker.

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      5. I think they will be noticeable more powrrful than Wii U (tech wise)….. just google Luminous Engine and UE4 engine and look what SquareEnix and Epic “key people” are saying, because of them i think it will me more powerful (BTW Epic was the reason why Xbox 360 had 512 MB RAM). The real problem is pricing, NOT PUTTING the best tech, Nintendo could do it easy and release a 1000 $ console (w/o sold at loss) or 300 $ (massive sold at a loss) but Nintendo is careful… i mean, who wants to buy a console for about 1000 $? (not so many ppl or in other words Nintendo/Sony/MS can forget 50 – 150mil sold units)

        But i agree (depends), the difference in “our eyes” wont be so much drastically like Wii vs PS3/60, the difference will be smaller this time (and ofc in future) but still, it will look better im sure….

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