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Sakurai Says Including Characters From Smash Bros Melee Is Difficult Due To Aged Data

Super Smash Bros game director Masahiro Sakurai has stated that some characters are decidedly more difficult to add into a new Smash Bros title. In his latest column in Famitsu magazine, the brawler’s director previously stated why the Ice Climbers narrowly missed the roster, but he’s also commented on how difficult it can be to bring back characters from Super Smash Bros Melee due to the aged data.

According to translations, Sakurai explains part of the development process for a Smash game is to migrate data from the older games, enabling their models and animations to be developed accurately. But as Melee’s data is so aged, the team would essentially have to build those past characters from scratch, extending the development process.

Sakurai also touched upon the 3DS game’s Smash Run mode enemies, where those characters selected needed to adhere to a set of specific guidelines, ranging from enemy originality to the maintenance of balance between enemy height and weights. As such, the amount of enemies from Kid Icarus: Uprising is larger due to the original 3DS models and their ability to fit smoothly within the set enemy guidelines.

Thanks, Takamaru64

120 thoughts on “Sakurai Says Including Characters From Smash Bros Melee Is Difficult Due To Aged Data”

    1. But they are from the scratch, he was probably talking about the character models. Since Melee has outdated models (such as the Mario characters, for example), they can’t pick models from there.

  1. I’m sorry, but this seems like another excuse. Did they forget the fact that they were in Brawl? Not my call, but still, a rather dumb decision.

    1. You can’t make everyone happy, unless if they had an infinite development time. Characters are cut because of time limitations, not because it’s impossible, Sakurai never said that is impossible, but worksome.

          1. Nintendo Commander Quadraxis

            I won’t put my hands on the 3DS version for a very long time because I simply don’t care about it…

            1. … You are not a machine… if you were you would show no interest in video games. You would be too busy taking over the world…

    2. Brawl was delayed twice and if he decided to implement the Ice Climbers and Mewtwo as well as other characters from that game and Brawl (Solid Snake for example), it would delay the release date like it did for Brawl. And something tells me that Sakurai was forced to get this game out as soon as possible or rather, wanted to get the game out as soon as possible. Some of it seems rushed… In particular, the modes are very lackluster on the 3DS version. No Adventure like mode like Melee and no Event Matches. :(

        1. thats right. they have to save the wii u’s ass right now by listening to what the fans has been desiring for so long (ridley, mewtwo, etc) if they want this version to be desirable. They wont build enough hype just with Stages or game modes. The characters are the real deal of smah bros in the end

          1. Ridley was actually deconfirmed twice. I really don’t know why people are still having faith for its entrance, specially when Ridley was never a memorable character, he is just a winged fire breathing dragon that has some attacks with his tail and talons and always acts as a mindless wild creature during its boss battles.

            Mewtwo is the real deal, he was a desired character in Japan and West, it actually shocks me that he didn’t joined the new game.

            1. Ok do u even know who Ridley is from story of Metroid? The fucker killed Samus’ parents pretty much right in front of her. He is the leader of space pirates who want to use the Metroids as freaking weapons. He is no matter how many times samus kills him he comes back to haunt her. In smash bros melee it says Ridley is actually freak in smart. Ridley is fan favorite villain for a reason. You clearly have played many Metroid games. Note I don’t care if ridley is in or not as playable character i’m just going to have fun

              1. I played a lot of Super Metroid, Prime 1 and Zero Mission ;)

                And I don’t care about who is the character, but how this guy acts as a boss in the games. Hell, that’s the precise reason of why Ridley is a boss character in the Pyropshere stage.

                The Ridley obsession annoys me because of how whiney and crybaby his fanboys are like, and very specially after its double deconfirmation.

                  1. I didn’t beat Super Metroid but I saw that Mother Brain battle and it was epic! I wish the whole game of Metroid was just filled with nothing but boss battles then I’d definitely buy it. No questions asked.

            2. Considering Sak fuc*ed up with NOT including Dark Samus but including Dark Pit & Dr. Mario, while Dark Samus being the top known Metroid character, i think this is why people still see Ridley Joining, ZSSamus is still the same person and Ridley is the nest closest char that has relevance. Along with the high possibilities of DLC, people still wont give up.
              (im on the fence on this one… i think Sak should just upgrade boss battles and have bosses playable which include ridley, master hand, tabuu, etc)

              1. Yeah, I agree that not including Dark Samus as playable was frustrating, but in the end, if Dark Samus made it, people would complain about her being a Samus clone :v

                Luckily, Samus has a DS palette swap.

            3. Deconfirmed twice? Where? The boss segment of that one Smash Direct doesn’t count. Sakurai neither confirmed nor deconfirmed him. If anything, he was teasing everyone, both pro & anti Ridley people alike. Hinting at something & actually confirming something are two different things. As for the other deconfirmation, I haven’t seen anything of the sort that could effectively deconfirm him.

              And Ridley isn’t memorable? Just because he seemed like a mindless monster with no memorable traits to you doesn’t mean he was to everyone else.

                1. What? Did someone in Japan upload a video or picture of someone fighting Ridley, as a boss, on the Pyrosphere? Or are we talking about that article that revealed the full roster?

              1. “The boss segment of that one Smash Direct doesn’t count.”

                Of course it counts! Why shouldn’t count? Why every single member of the Ridley defense force sees an anti-Ridley argument as a major offense? I’m just stating what I saw, and I saw pretty much of the same thing you also saw, considering taht you follow Sakurai’s Miiverse posts.

                I don’t have problems with Ridley itself, but with its childish fans out there.

                1. I don’t like the childish ones either as they make the ones like me look bad but that’s no reason to diss the ones that have good points when they aren’t being childish. The anti-Ridley people have some pretty childish ones, too, but I’m not putting all of them in the same group.

                  1. I’m with him on this one. There’s no way Ridley is in at this point. Sakurai already revealed most of the major characters like Pac-Man, Little Mac, Rosalina, etc. If he was gonna include Ridley, he’d have already shown him by now. It’s getting way too close to the release of the game for him to be confirmed. On Miiverse, he said he isn’t going to reveal anymore content like that. He’ll just post more pictures and stuff about the Wii U version. Considering all the work he’s done into making these games, I seriously doubt he would joke around about including a character such as Ridley.

            4. Ridley basically defines memorable. Think of it this way, there are dozens of huge dragons out there so why do people remember Ridley so much? It’s because he wasn’t just any old Dragon. Ridley is actually pretty smart and strategic. He doesn’t just rely on instinct and he’s very determined. He seems to take joy in hurting Samus and the others as he continues to follow her. You also saw how he was fast enough to keep up with Captain Falcon’s jet in Brawl right? This guy is serious business and he’s awesome!

              1. First in the Miivers post anouncing the Pyrosphere stage. Second while hinting more boss characters in Smash Bros. Direct, even showing a silhouette of the monster in this last one.

                Ridley was deconfirmed twice! Period.

                1. >.< Ever thought Sakurai was just trolling the anti-Ridley people by making them think they won all of the Ridley arguments? After all, this is Sakurai we're talking about here & he does like trolling people. Again, hinting is not the same as confirming. I can hint that Ra's Al Ghul was coming back to life for The Dark Knight Rises in the trailer but that didn't mean I confirmed he was doing so in the finished product. In fact, it turned out it wasn't the case & Bruce Wayne was just hallucinating the man.

        1. Me too. I don’t have any problems with this roster, but I can understand the frustration of having a favorite character cut.

          I just hate when people comes with this type of complain by thinking that adding a character is simple as grabbing with the hand and putting into the game. Character are not just an icon tin the character selection screenm, everyone should know about this.

          1. These people clearly never played Kirby Air Ride’s City Trial mode :D

            Several weeks before april’s Smash Direct, I was just imaginning a CT-like mode for Smash, when I saw the SR clips in the Direct, I rejoiced so much! This game mode is a major fanservice to me, I intend to play this mode over and over again, even without online feature.

      1. This is almost what i was speculating. And it sort of happened with MK8, because there was a major WiiU drought, it needed to be rushed out but not to the point where the game was glitchy but instead had downgraded features. This brings me to my final point, that most if not ALL features downgraded or left out of Smash will be coming back with DLC.

      2. I really do miss the Event Battles. They were fun and some of the themes were rather interesting. I agree that the game was rushed and Sakurai likely had bigger plans for it.

    1. I think it’s not a fair using Project M as a parameter for anything, it’s a hack after all. Where is the sense in comparing a game made from the scratch with a hack based in an already existing game?:

      1. But isn’t what’s being disputed right now is the “from scratch” argument?

        I get it. Project M came out years ago and only recently did they complete the roster. But to counter that, they did it with a fraction of the resources. Not only did they add Mewtwo and Roy, they vastly improved on them (Mewtwo’s hover and teleport mechanics, Roy’s Nair and up B animation, making him less of a Marth clone).

        I’m not bashing Sakurai. He’s a genius. I love all of the games in the series. But the “hard to transfer to a different iteration” just seems flimsy if it’s actually been done by comparative amateurs.

        1. I actually can understand people’s frustration when Sakurai comes off with these sorts of arguments. I prefer to believe that he should to say more comprehensive things for your design decisions.

          For example: Sakurai should say that his team cut the Subspace Emissary in order to give major focus on character development, instead, he said that this cut was made because of his fear of spoilers. And I know he can do better justifications because he made a smart explanation about Robin and Lucina inclusions.

      1. Ok answer this, how long was Project M being worked on? Because it was in Beta for a few years, and that’s just BETA, a fucken BETA of a mod, they didn’t have to worry about the development that started from the ground up.

        If Sakurai had indefinite development time I’m sure he would try to please us all but the truth is he doesn’t. The game needs to be out soon.

        1. If they come with a SSB4 based Project M, I swear I will stop following the competitive Smash scene! I already hated when PM overcame Brawl in the tournaments because of the whiney Melee widows, and seeing the new game suffering from the same rejection would be my worst nightmare!

    2. You do realize that those models were imported from other games. More specifically melee. Also you can’t compare a hack to an actual game that was made from scratch. Project M already had a base which is Brawl. Also modders can take their time because they don’t have a deadline like developers do. Well in most situations modders don’t.

  2. Whats the point of getting angry? We may get those characters back in a future iteration of the game. Change keep things fresh Anyway.

    1. wait for a future iteration to give us all what we want. i’m sorry i dissagree with that statement. the smash bros games only come out every six or seven years. but its fine, we might get what we want 6 or seven years from now. come on man!

  3. People will always complain, will always blame Sakurai, will call his speeches as excuses and such, but in the end, everyone will play the game in one way or the other :v Nintendo fans should change this aspect.

    The actual reason of why certain character are cut is because of time issues. When you make a game like Smash Bros., you need to make a balance between old and new content, and make these things fit into the deadline. The developers doesn’t have the paower to make everyone happy unless if they had infinite development time.

    1. I don’t think there’s a time issue with this game. It’s the space that the 3DS has. You can’t go on the internet, black screen when you close it, etc. The game seems to almost explode with the amount of stuff it has. No way there would be room for even one more character.

      1. Well, let’s consider that they were developing two games at the same time. I can imagine the team struggling to make things work on both systems, is kinda like they were working in double :p

    2. People are not gonna buy the wii u version if sakurai doesnt gives them some of the most demanded characters to be in smash bros (wheter its a new character or someone coming back). Specially now that we got the 3ds version, nobody will buy the wii u version if they dont hype it with new characters and make it desirable. Stages or game modes wont be enough reason to make ppl buy that version, so they NEED to do this.

      1. The stages and game modes will be there from sure. But since it was established that both 3DS and Wii U will have the exact same roster, it’s better that rumor about unlocking more character by linking the two versions become true.

        People will already buy the Wii U version because it’s for Wii U, a home console y’ know, will support multiple controller options (am I the only intending to use the Game Pad as an arcade table for this game? xD ), will support Amiibo, will certainly have some exclusive modes since the 3DS already have Smash Run.

        But, for the third time :v It’s impossible to make everyone happy.

      1. Your whiney fanboy ramble will not change the fact that was time issues that compromises the development cronogram for EVERY SINGLE GAME OUT THERE!!

        And all this despise for the 3DS version just became amusing after this game just sold 1 million copies in 3 days after coming out in Japan.

  4. are you f$87ing kidding sakuri! just stop talking! it only makes us mad and you look stupid. you don’t transfer characters from game to game you remake them from scratch.

  5. …….. Last i remember they were making them from scratch and he even said it will be hard to recreate every brawl character from scratch.
    Screw Sakurai.

  6. Gotta admit a lot of these comments make fair arguments, Sakurais history with smash has been long with many delays, snags and even gave him health issues. Better to get the game out now than waste more time, he’ll, it’s looking pretty full as is

    Besides, they always can go back for DLC where the content isn’t rushed and shoddy. You guys more likely to pay for Mewtwo and Roy? Or Jigglypuff and Game and watch?

  7. That’s why they added a bunch of other characters that had their first appearance in Melee… Not to forget that Ice Climbers were in Brawl as well ??
    I don’t know, I’m not a big fan of the Ice Climbers, but this sounds like a really lame excuse to me. I think it would have been better if he just went ahead and said that he simply didn’t feel like adding them, would seem more genuine and honest than making up excuses that don’t sound very credible.

  8. I’m kinda in the middle of the situation. As much as I want the game sooner than later (the Wii U needs it desperately) , I would have rather had two different Smash entries with cutscenes and more game modes. Hopefully Nintendo includes DLC with Smash and make it version exclusive or something.

  9. For crying out loud, people are still whinning about a characters only a minority of people used and no one really cares about? the Ice climbers are gone, deal with it, they got replaced by even better characters such as the Duck hunt, dont whine until you play the game.

    1. Played the game. Time for me to whine. I dont care what characters they put in as long as they keep the older ones. Its a bs excuse that they didnt bring mewtwo or ice climbers because if “aged data”. why not make a new model? If project m brought mewtwo to brawl how hard can it be for the creator of smash?

    2. Dude, we are complaing in knowing Smash Bros. doesn’t take full advantage of Wii U like it should have. Wii U version is the definitve version over 3Ds by a very small amount. Unless you can list me 15 features Wii U has not avaible on 3Ds…..I didn’t think so. It’s kinda of a slap in the face for Wii U owners.

  10. What a lame excuse. The Wii U version should have more characters then the 3ds version anyway but he decided to limit the Wii U roster to what the 3ds can handle, which was dumb, imo.

  11. Really the characters in melee were not the best. I was surprised to see doc return over mewtwo, but the I learn its up to gamefreak they choose the pokemon roster. I never cared for roy he was just advertisement for the new fire emblem game( his game wasn’t even out). Really the only characthers people want to return from Melee are Roy and mewtwo that’s it.

    1. Dr. Mario returned because its easier for 3Ds to handle him since he is a clone. 3Ds can’t handle Mew two or Ice Climbers. So it won’t go to Wii U. There are like less reasons than 5 fingers on one hand as why Wii U is the definitive version over 3Ds but cost $20 more.

  12. And now he admits he’s cutting corners left and right, using leftover data from Brawl?
    I’m definitely not buying this piece of shit game, if I wanted to play with a rotting corpse I would go find some roadkill.

    1. Lots of characters got reworked and adjusted, The only thing I see that’s recycled from brawl are the winning animations and themes( some not all). Street fighter 4 did some similar things to capture similar feels. So far everone I;ve asked who has the game says its awesome, but hey if don’t like it don’t like ur money

  13. Bullshit ignoring DR. Mario skipped Brawl and came from Melee too. Funny how two characters get skipped but the single clone doesn’t. So some how Dr. Mario data isn’t outdated even though all he does is stand next to a jar throwing pills inside it since gas prices were $.99 a gallon but Ice Climbers are outdated. Bullshit just admit you fucked smash bros up with 3Ds version.

  14. Cutting corners Sakurai? I agree with everyone that this seems really sad. Nintendo is rushing Smash Bros so much that it’s only going to get a 9/10 from me this time. I think I may have to dig out Brawl once every few months to remind me how much better the Wii U one is. It’s the only thing that will stop me from doing something drastic like playing Melee again for Mewtwo!


      1. Project M sounds great, but I was always skepticla about the ethics of playing a mod like that. For now, I’ll just have to take my chances with the Ridleyless Smash Bros for 3DS demo!

      1. At this point, fuck the 3DS owners. It’s bad enough the Wii U version is being held back just to make the 3DS owners happy & feel special.

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  16. Honestly.. Guys. its sakurai were talking about. He is a damn genius when it comes to the unexpected. Anybody smart will already know that sakurai has plans for DLC, and killer new modes (more than one) for wii u. im sure stage builder, event mode, boss battles, (one where you play as villain bosses against your friends) and tower of smash will definitely be included. Dont doubt daddy sakurai. remember namco is involved in the making of this. that means double the content from brawl.

  17. Please reply if you can:

    Every person is talking about how “The wii u version is much better than the 3DS version” and “The wii u version has achieved and got a lot more than the 3DS version”. So, in defence, I will talk about the 3DS version.

    1. So, maybe the wii u version looks a lot better than the wii u verhe sion (HD), but remember, this is the first time smash bros. has been on A HANDHELD, so of course the 3ds version have a few things here and there, but there’s more effort put into the 3DS version than in the wii u version.

    2. The 3ds has achieved a lot more than the wii u version. Look at this list of all new “Exclusive” things that smash bros has to offer:

    60fps even in 3D, Smash Run, MP3 – like player, 3ds can be a controller for wii u, streetpass, play on the go, handheld stages.

    Wii U:

    HD, Amiibo, console stages(for now)

    3. Maybe short, but many people have been saying “The 3ds version has been released before the wii u version so it can have some ‘alone time'”, but this is not true. The 3ds and wii u version were released at different times because Sakurai wanted separate debug times on both the 3ds and wii u version”

    FYI I do not hate the wii u version in any sort of way, and I will buy the wii u version when it gets released.

    And finally, you decide after reading this, “Is the wii u version really the ‘Definite Version’?”

    1. The 3DS version is a single player experience. Wii U is for multiplayer. That alone makes it the better version. Especially if you play it on huge 42-50 inch TV’s. And the controls are also much better. The 3DS is not a great controller for fighters. Yes, you can get people and make them being their own 3DS’s for multiplayer, but who really wants to do that when you can just pick up a controller and play? And of course that’s assuming those people even have their own 3DS. The Wii U is obviously the better version, but the 3DS is good as well.

        1. Yeah, that’s the advantage of the 3DS version. Portability. For someone like me that spends more time playing games at home though, that isn’t really an issue.

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